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finished stator pics


By electronbaby, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 10:03:49 AM MST
It was way too nice out yesterday...

so i decided to make some progress on my 24v machine. My prior postings pertaining to this machine are here:
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/3/22/102529/026
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/4/2/92914/49756

Here is a shot of the stator mould and coils ready to be wired. The coils came out very nice. They are 50 turns of 2 strands of 14AWG wire. I had some issues with the coil shape and it took me two coils before i found a suitable shape that would fit correctly in the magnet footprint. Overall, i think they came out well and perfectly .5" thick.

Since I worked out all the math pertaining to this machine and its characteristics, I will go ahead and cast all wires and connections internal to the stator mould. This makes the whole stator very neat and there is no chance I will have any failures due to vibration of the interconnecting wires between coils. It also is weather proof. It is wired in star and reaches cut in (24v) at aprox 75 RPM.

Before I pour, I wanted to make sure I had all my connections right. As it turns out I had wired it backwards. I had tied my coils ends together for the common connection (star) instead of the coil starts. As Ed  and a few others pointed out, this is electrically the same and as long as all coils were wired correctly and placed in phase, It shouldnt make a bit of difference. I felt comfortable and just to make sure, i ran it through a simple test. I secured all coils to a piece of plywood with zip-ties and held it in the lathe. I used only one rotor and it behaved correctly, it produced aprox half the voltage it should with 2 rotors between all output terminals. This made me happy and i decided to pour. Notice the three areas I routed the wires around to make room for the support bracket bolts later on.

Here I am pressing the mould. Those are very large and heavy steel discs piled on there. I used plenty of fiberglass mat in this one also. Since it is a little over 18" diameter, I wanted the security of knowing it would be very strong.


Here is the finished product. I cleaned it up with a small grinder and some acetone to remove the grease. It came out ok. There are some air bubbles. I could have avoided these if I mixed for a slower cure time (which I thought i did) but after adding talcum powder and... I guess it was hot outside and it started to set faster than I expected. It also took some time to place all the coils because, since they were allready wired together, they had to be placed in mould in one piece.


Here you can see how I made my output terminals. I used 7-16" stainless bolts. I bored out three holes in the mould so the heads would remain on the outside of the casting. These are simply to avoid putting too much stress on the stator while tightening the output lugs. I silver soldered some crimp connectors onto the bolts and soldered those to the coil outputs (internal). Here you can see the wire on the inside of the stator going to the lugs.

Overall, I think this came out very good and it behaves just like I need it to in tests. I cant wait till I have the whole machine completed! and the real tests can begin!!  :-)

RoyR

finished stator pics | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#1)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 02:12:46 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Nice looking stator Roy!  Be fun to hear results soon.... !!!

I think its probably nearly an interchangable part for ours.  I finished our stator the Thurs before last, and did some things very similar to how you have.  This time I made all the connections on the inside dia of the stator (so the wires wouldnt be poking out... ) -  I figured it'd look nicer and resistance would be slightly lower, however I suspect that overall it wont cool quite as well.  I wonder how much affect having all the copper connections on the outside of the casting affects cooloing - or if it's even an issue we need to worry about.  So - we got our alternator together and the cutin speed seems about good for a 15' prop.  One of my concerns about ours now (after looking at Hughs latest design) is the strength of the tail pivot.  I'd change that now... except that Matt now has a running bet with Hugh about the tail falling off ;-).  So I guess were forced to go with it....

Ill get some pictures of that machine up here.... (someday)

We just returned (this morning) from Hughs seminar on Guemes Island.  While we were there we built a larger 12' dia machine, and make an adaptor so that we could hook it to the rear of an old pickup truck and do some rpm/output testing with it.  It was fun, and interesting.  At a sustained 1KW output it did heat up quite a bit, although there was no wind flowing by the stator in that test.



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#2)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 02:47:20 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

I have not had the time to throw together the tail pivot yet for my machine. I will get to that soon. I kinda have been waiting to see what type of tower it will go on so I can design it better and more adaptable to the supporting structure. I have thought about cooling some. I guess I will have to wait and see. I cant wait to see pics of your similar machine. Did u use the same mags I used?? (the ones I got from you) ??  same 14" diameter rotors?  You said yours came out suitable for a 15' prop. Is this with a 7/8" airgap or did u decrease it?   How heavy is it?  :-P   Mine will be quite heavy. Im working out the details as I go along and if you couldnt tell,... i kinda built this one backwards... the rotors, stator, and then the yaw/tail furling assembly. I usually do it the other way around. I think it worked out good so far because I can design and beef up the parts that really need it.  I still have to make the prop. I think i will wait till i get it all assembled before I decide what size prop to build. I was shooting for a 16-18' prop... If your came out to run well with a 15' then i might reconsider... its too soon to tell in my case though... Ill keep everyone posted. There is a chance you will be finished with your machine before I am done. This machine is for a new place of mine and I have to build the system from the ground up since its a 24v system. I am also bartering for some components along the way  :-P

Dan, I hope you had fun with Hugh. Did u take any pics?  will you post them or will Hugh have them up on his site?
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#3)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 03:18:30 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Hi Roy -

"Did u use the same mags I used?? (the ones I got from you) ??  same 14" diameter rotors?  "

Yes, its basicly identical to yours (And my last 14' machine), same magnets, same 14" steel rotors, same stator w/ 48 windings of 2 strands of #14 wire.  Cutin speed currently would justify a 16' prop, but the forces of a 16' prop intimidate me so Im thinking of detuning the airgap again and going with a 14' or 16' prop on it.  Ive got one alternator finished completely - just needing a tail and prop, and another one just like it under construction.

"You said yours came out suitable for a 15' prop. Is this with a 7/8" airgap or did u decrease it?"

My stator came out 9/16" thick, I suspect the airgap is around 7/8".  Cutin is around 65 rpm.

"How heavy is it?"

Ive not weighed it yet, my guess, without the tail or the prop - around 80 pounds.

"Mine will be quite heavy. Im working out the details as I go along and if you couldnt tell,... i kinda built this one backwards... the rotors, stator, and then the yaw/tail furling assembly. I usually do it the other way around. I think it worked out good so far because I can design and beef up the parts that really need it.  I still have to make the prop. I think i will wait till i get it all assembled before I decide what size prop to build. I was shooting for a 16-18' prop..."

After visiting Hughs seminar and looking at how robust the 12' machine we built was... it would inspire me to use larger bearings, larger pivots... more iron all around.  Why not!!  18' would be quite a lot... it would scare the heck out of me.  At 12 volts now - with my 14' machine I often see about 135 amps @ around 24 mph.

That alternator can be seen here: http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/12/8/82054/7361

(and at 12 volts my losses in the line are pretty significant I think)  Consider that 18' would have almost twice the swept area therefor almost twice the energy, I'd be afraid of melting the stator.  (that allready concerns me with the 14' machine)  My intuition tells me this is not powerful enough for an 18' prop and I think 16' might be the upper limit.  Hard to say though.  Im dying to be able to test these on the ground soon.

"If your came out to run well with a 15' then i might reconsider... "

My 14' machine has been quite good now since January....  so thats not really a very long time to know how reliable it will be over the long haul.  It truly makes more power than I can use if its even a little breezy!  16' has me a little scared - so I'm thinking of taking "baby steps" up at this point.  If I go with a 15' prop, I will wind up opening the airgap slightly I think - although Im not sure.  The tips of the prop are a bit narrow on my 14' machine and I think that may have added some to the stall problems I had to start with.  So on this one Ill probably go 15', and make the blades a bit wider and.... see what happens!  I believe its in the ballpark though for a 15' prop.

"There is a chance you will be finished with your machine before I am done. This machine is for a new place of mine and I have to build the system from the ground up since its a 24v system."

Things are busy for me right now, but I plan to spend one or two days/week on it so I suspect itll be done here in... a week or two.  Then we can worry about the tower!

"Dan, I hope you had fun with Hugh. Did u take any pics?  will you post them or will Hugh have them up on his site?"

Yes, it was great fun!! - and we got too many pictures ;-)
Well post something soon Im sure.  Ive got a bit of other catching up to do first though.

[ Parent ]



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#4)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 03:28:17 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Great Dan!!  I will be looking forward to seeing the pics of the seminar and comparing notes on these large machines.  :-)  

Have Fun!!

RoyR
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#5)
by RobD on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 06:41:58 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

Great work guys!
I'm wondering how you got the coils so well defined and kept them from falling apart when you took them off the forms? I've been using super glue on my fine wire 30ga. 350 turn ( 1/4'x .8" coil size) prototypes but the coils aren't holding together well.
RobD



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#6)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 08:26:32 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Rob, first i made sure that i waxed the inside of the coil winder well. This is key because it prevents the glue from gluing the coil to the form. Wrap the coil very tightly and soak the outside of the coil with super glue. Dan used accelerator i think. I didnt have any, so i just put the coil form on top of a variable temp heater. I "baked" it for 1 hour and it dried the glue. I then opened and soaked the interior of the coil and did this again. I know it takes a while. It would have gone quicker if i had made more than one coil winder. make sure you wax again before each coil is wound.  I think the extra care pays off in having nice solid coils that are perfectly 1/2" thick. just make sure you dont heat it too much... could cause premature weakening of the enamel coating on the wire. also, if the temp is too high, the wax melts (crayons) and it is harder to separate the coil from the winder.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#7)
by monte350c on Tue Apr 20th, 2004 at 09:05:04 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi electronbaby,

Great looking work! The inside connections really tidy things up. Great idea too testing before resin!

To RobD - in addition to the above methods for holding coils together, I have been using a hot melt glue gun for this with pretty good success. Just the tiniest amount of hot glue seems to hold things in place. You have to be a little careful with the tip of the glue gun, it's hot enough to melt the enamel on the wire. But if you keep the tip off the wire it works fine.

Ted.

ps. the version of this Sav. I built is about 5' high, and 18" wide. It turns (unloaded) at about 300 rpm in a 20 mph wind. Now that the weather's improving a bit I hope to get some definitive performance numbers in the next week or two.

[ Parent ]



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#8)
by RobD on Wed Apr 21st, 2004 at 06:36:18 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.dsgnspec.com

Thanks EB and Ted,
I never thought of using wax on the forms.
Ted,
Your speed figure gives me a good idea of the dimensions I want to try for my machine. What energy do you expect from it? I don't have specs on area and power for this design. How about you?
Rob



Re: finished stator pics (none / 0) (#9)
by wayne (wayne.jones@sait.ab.ca) on Wed Apr 21st, 2004 at 10:01:28 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Roy

What great shots and good work. I have not done the resin thing just still learning. My first question why did you 2 strands of 50 turn wire vs just using one strand. And are these hooked up in parallel each coil. On your form you have the coils tie wrapped on a board. Did you pour the resin in wood board also but the pic looks like there is no board. Never done this but want to learn.

Thanks
Wayne



How to make it strong? (none / 0) (#10)
by hvirtane (hannu_markus_virtanen(at)yahoo(dot)com) on Wed Apr 21st, 2004 at 12:13:47 PM MST
(User Info) http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

Really good and nice pictures.
Thank you for sharing these.

Concerning the robustness.
How thick is your axle?

In general here people's thumb rule
is that the axle thickness should be
at least 1% of the dia of the prop.
It means, if your prop is 3 m,
the axle is at least 3 cm in dia.
What is your thumb rule?

- Hannu



Re: How to make it strong? (none / 0) (#11)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Wed Apr 21st, 2004 at 01:12:40 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Hannu, I have not heard this about the thickness of the axel, but i guess it makes sense. This stator will be used in an alternator based around the volvo spindle and hub. The stock volvo rotors are too small for the scale of this machine which will probably end up with a 16' prop, so i custom fabricated two 14" rotors out of steel plate. The whole assembly (rotors/magnets/stator) will be very heavy and I think i am pushing the limits of the volvo design. I dont think it would be a bad idea to beef everything up a bit. Especially the yaw and tail assembly. I have talked to DanB about this and we both agree, a machine this size sees some serious forces applied to it. If you are not familiar with the volvo spindles, they are aprox 1.5" in the rear and taper down to 1.25" in the front of the shaft.  They are hardened steel and they utilize tapered roller bearings. My measurements are just an approximation and they probably vary slightly from what i just said. This machine is designed to turn very slowly as to avoid problems with a prop this size.  It will be interesting to see what happens in real life when it actually is up and spinning and i can watch it for a bit.  :-)
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


finished stator pics | 11 comments (11 topical, 0 editorial)
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