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power tests (21" stator genni)


By marv, Section Wind
Posted on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 10:20:55 AM MST
Here are some results.

Hi All,   I finally found a way to test this monster and here are some results.




This is a front driveshaft from a 4x4. It's nice and short,it worked well.

 First some background info;  12pole,  36 coil,  72 slot,  3 phase,  24 mags,

 2x2"x1/2" neo's, 100 turns #18 wire, silicon laminations. I think that covers that.

      This is how the tests were conducted.
      4mm air gap, rectified DC and with a 50 ohm load.  (DELTA)

        Results:
        52 rpm------100V-----------1.76amp---------176watt
        132 rpm------200V-----------4.8 amp---------960watt
        225 rpm------500V-----------8.  amp--------4000watt  

I was planning on a 5.5-6 meter (18-20 feet) prop 3 blade tip/speed ratio 7
230 rpm top speed.

I would welcome (most) any sugestions or comments.

 Marv.      

power tests (21" stator genni) | 12 comments (12 topical)

Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Nando on Thu Oct 27, 2005 at 11:01:40 PM MST

BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF EQUIPMENT -- CONGRATULATIONS

Your generator is a low frequency unit, for 50 Hz the RPM is 500, so at 225 RPM the output frequency is 22.5 Hz and of course lower frequency ( 5.2 Hz) at lower 52 RPM.

No way to use transformers to bring the power down economically.

You need to rectify and do a DC/AC or DC/DC conversion to a workable voltage.

You could have a dual conversion ( with MPPT), from low voltage to 700 volts and from there a DC/AC or A DC/DC converter.

Conversion depends on what you want to do.

You say 48 volts battery bank -- what size -- amp-hour

The DC/DC converter could be a full bridge IGBT with PWM for a good charging battery profile.

The problem is the availability of the 5 to 6 KW DC/DC or the DC/AC converters.

A high voltage Buck down converter is, as well, possible -- it is a major effort to do, because the major ratio is 700/57 volts = 8.77 ratio that at this power needs to be handled carefully for MPPT capabilities.

Regards

Nando



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#1)
by monte350c on Mon Jun 14, 2004 at 07:22:43 PM MST

Hi Marv,

Wow - pretty impressive results, I'd say you deserve a pat on the back for this one. I've been following your project since you first posted it here.

The high voltage and low amps should cut down the amount of heat generated in the stator. Also it should be pretty efficient over a longish run of wire. At 225 rpm that should work out to about 22.5 HZ (provided my brain is operating correctly!)

Just out of curiosity have you worked out what you're going to do downstream of this alternator - transforming, storing, or using it as you go?

That constant speed mechanism for the prop is looking pretty nice too!

Ted.



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#2)
by tecker on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 03:54:32 AM MST

  What kind of torque are you looking at for> 500 volts  



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#3)
by Dan M on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 07:19:53 AM MST

Marv,

I'd love to see what you're thinking as far as blades (material, profile, etc.)

Also, I don't know what you're thinking about to tap this power, but the relatively high voltage sould work well to generate heat through a resistive element like a hot water heater element.

-Dan M



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#4)
by hvirtane on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 01:35:09 PM MST

A nice test bench!

I think that your results
are quite impressive.

Could you please publish a bit more
about the design of the alt.
How much you put silicon
steel laminates on that
and which way are they arranged.

I'm interested in seeing
your design for the blades.

- Hannu



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#5)
by marv on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 02:14:49 PM MST

Ted; I want to charge a 48v battery system but I'm not sure if I have to use a
transformer or the batteries would pull it down to 48v. Anyone have a suggestion?

Tecker; I didn't test the torque at 500v but I checked it for startup. 16 foot lbs.
with a torque wrench.

Hannu; The design of this genni is mostly in my past posts with pictures.

thanks Marv

[ Parent ]



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#6)
by monte350c on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 02:19:22 PM MST

Hi Hannu,

(Hope you don't mind Marv, I took the liberty of posting the links to your old posts!)

I too have been following Marv's progress - here are a few links to this genny:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/11/8/182745/040

(I guess Marv is NOT afraid of heights!)

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/12/23/194340/89

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/2/22/74839/0881

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/3/14/184039/727

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2004/4/4/182228/0691

This thing should put out some very serious power....

Ted.

[ Parent ]



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#7)
by hvirtane on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 02:47:03 PM MST

Hi,

thanks Ted.

I looked through all the posts.

It looks really nice.
I got the information
about the alternator.
It is something quite similar
I have been suggesting for
my Indian friend to do next.

A really beautiful tower.
I had seen the picture
but didn't remember that it
was for the same project.

I will show the picture of your tower
to my friends here in Finland.
With the other of them we are
reinstalling a 15 kW turbine on the
top of a 32 m tower. We have now 20 m
of that tower up. We hope to get
the mill up during this summer while
Kyosti is on his holidays.

- Hannu

[ Parent ]



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#8)
by KHB1 on Tue Jun 15, 2004 at 07:14:10 PM MST

Marv it's one marv(elus) machine I cant wait to see it on top of that tower.
KHB1 cecil
As you slide down the banister of life may the splinters point the other way.


Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#9)
by Michael on Wed Jun 16, 2004 at 12:29:06 AM MST

nice job,

your load was 50 ohms, what was the resistance of your source, what was the resistance of each phase?
did you calculate the power lost in the coils?
P = I^2 x R,  R = resistance of your coils.

Great output for only 24 magnets!, did you have any cogging?

i would suggest that you use lock-nuts, or put "lock-tight" on your nuts if you havent done already, as the vibrations may loosen them over time.

Michael.



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#10)
by marv on Wed Jun 16, 2004 at 05:05:13 AM MST

Hi Michael;   The resistance of each phase is 7.7 ohms x3=23.1 ohms total.

The cogging at 4mm air gap isn't that bad considering the size of this. I checked
cogging with a torque wrench for startup and got 16 foot pounds. But with 18-20'
dia. blades that should be ok.

I like the design of your blades using the skeleton, expandable foam, glass wrap
method. Did they hold together for you? Or any upgrades to suggest?

Marv.

[ Parent ]



Re: power tests (21" stator genni) (none / 0) (#11)
by Michael on Wed Jun 16, 2004 at 09:35:06 PM MST

If each phase is 7.7 ohms, then if it is connected in delta shouldn't the source resistance be 7.7 / 3 = 2.5 ohms?

If the source is 2.5 ohms, then your machine is running at 95% efficiency, now that's impressive.

Cogging torque seems too high for a 2-bladed machine, hopefully 3 blades should be ok
5 blades would be even better,
how many blades to u plan on using?

I recommend for 18-20' blades you make them using fibreglass and carbon fibre, my 10kw blades are lager than Dans latest turbine, and are very very light and strong, i think wood is good for smaller turbines because of the weight problem.

The metal skeleton has no strength, it is strong enough to hold the foam in place,
the strength comes from the fibreglass and carbon fibre, make sure you use plenty of fibreglass at the root and fibreglass all blades together to make 1-piece, you dont want these one of these huge blade coming loose and flying off.

I haven't put the blades up yet, i haven't had time to finish the tower, been too busy with the 1.8 metre turbine and a new much larger turbine,
as for strength, the 1.8 metre is still holding together even after it hit the heavy copper power cord at 2365RPM, carbon fibre with vinyl ester resin makes very tough blades.

Michael.


[ Parent ]



power tests (21" stator genni) | 12 comments (12 topical)
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