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Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts


By commanda, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Fri Aug 6th, 2004 at 04:24:26 AM MST
Worthwhile designing in or not

Does anybody have any thoughts, positive or negative, on the merits of designing in a dual state charging system with large deep cycle batteries.

I read somewhere recently, the URL escapes me at the moment, about keeping a diesel generator handy, and occasionaly giving the batteries an "equalisation charge", where they are taken to a terminal voltage higher than they are normally exposed to, and held there for a while.

This is precisely what a dual state charger does automatically.  I know, because I recently (2 years ago now) redesigned the UPS we use with our beltweighers to incorporate such a charger. I'm only now building the first batch of UPS's (they're optional, and we don't sell many).

If you have no idea what I'm talking about,look up integrated circuit UC3906.

Amanda Commanda

Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by tecker on Fri Aug 6th, 2004 at 05:27:33 AM MST
(User Info)


 If one had a way to determine the the cell status after a conditioning like that but I submit that the lead peroxide would shed under stress after a certain period .There is data that points to this under high potential pulse charging . I haven't seen any damage with potentials of 60 volts pulse . The cells under go a chemical transformation when acid is first added and I know conditioning is necessary to renew the circulation in the cells .



Re: Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Opera House on Fri Aug 6th, 2004 at 06:48:24 AM MST
(User Info)

Unrelated, but I am a little bored.  GE R&D many years ago came up with a small battery charger that was the size of your hand (it was never sold).  It would charge at a high current of about 60A.  What was unique about it was that it would produce every so often a very high reverse current pulse. That was supposed reduce bubbles forming on the plates at very high charge rates.



Re: Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by wpowokal on Fri Aug 6th, 2004 at 09:55:56 AM MST
(User Info)

Equalising lead acid batteries is essential in my opinion the time period for this differs on which artical one reads,  I prefer weekly but don't stress if its monthly. This rectifies any stratification of the electrolite and ballances out cells.

There are many articals on this subject try
http://www.homepower.com/magazine/downloads_batteries.cfm
http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ_Index.htm
Also Sandia have done some very informative papers on this subject re the voltages one should aim for.

regards Allan

A life lived in fear is a life half lived.



Re: Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by electroshock (electroscience@hotmail.com) on Wed Dec 7th, 2005 at 03:20:21 PM MST
(User Info)

Can anyone help me?
I'm trying to find a schematic of a charger for a
12-volt led-acid battery that has over/under voltage
protection. I thought of building my own using a LM317T
regulator and a LM324.  

Also can anyone explain what a shunt regulator is and supply a
schematic for one?

And explain how to build a circuit that automatically adjusts
Current for a NPN power transistor or supply a schematic for one

I could do research but lately I have little time. I was hoping
To speed things up a little.....trying to understand more on how
An alternator (run of the mill) voltage regulator works I thought
I could breadboard one to fully understand how a power transistor
Can automatically adjust current vs load




Re: Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by ghurd on Wed Dec 7th, 2005 at 04:34:48 PM MST
(User Info)

A car alternator regulator won't work.
Car alternators use power to make magnetic fields, we use magnets mostly.

The 'power transistor can automatically adjust current vs load' part has me puzzled.

You may be asking about a MPPT regulator?

A overly simple explaination,
but a 'shunt regulator' turns a load on at a set voltage. Just to 'waste' the extra power.

If the battery reaches say 13.9V the shunt regulator turns a load on,
draining the extra power to a 'dump load'.
The extra power is shunted or re directed to another place instead of the battery.

When the battery drops to say 13.7V the dump load is shut off.

Most have a series of on and off set points, allowing the most power to charge the battery. They may be set, for example, at a very large load is turned on for 14 to 13.7V, a smaller load at 13.85 to 13.65V and a small load at 13.8 to 13.6V.

Many people use the shunted power to heat water so it is not just wasted.

A series type controller simply disconnects the power source from the battery.
This is fine for solar panels.

But disconnecting all loads from a windmill will cause an unloaded condition.
Meaning there is nothing holding the blade speed back, or the peak voltage down.
The speed could blow the blades apart.
The high voltage could kill someone or fry all the electronics.

Car regulators adjust voltage by changing the amps to the magnetic areas producing those fields. But we are mostly using magnets with the fields set by the magnet strength. Why make a electro magnetic field with power forever if you can buy one, once.
G-


[ Parent ]



Re: Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by electroshock (electroscience@hotmail.com) on Wed Dec 7th, 2005 at 07:49:01 PM MST
(User Info)

thanks for the reply
 I kinda thought that was it the more I thought about it.
I just couldnt think of any aps for it.

The windmill gen-set over speed control as well, very cool.

[ Parent ]



Dual state chargers....... Any thoughts | 6 comments (6 topical, 0 editorial)
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