Go to Otherpower.com Home Page Go to Forcefield Shopping Cart Go to Wondermagnet.com Home Page
Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Rants & Opinion - Diaries - Our Products
What makes a "UPS" battery?


By whatsnext, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Mon Sep 27th, 2004 at 10:07:26 PM MST
Are these things deap cycles?

I realize that the VRLA meens valve regulated lead acid and I understand that batteries are semi sealed but after two hours of doing google searches to find out what make a "UPS" battery a "UPS" battery I'm still confused. Are they just sealed deep cycles or is there something special about them(they sure are priced as though they are very special). I have a APC 1200VX that needs a new battery pack. I was going to toss the thing, due to battery replacement cost, but I never toss anything. Today I went to my forklift battery guy to get my 48V bank started and noticed that he had a pallet of 74AH UPS batteries on the shelf. They're replacements for APC's RBC-14 but made by someone else. He got them new as part of a trade and has had them for two months so they should be OK and he's offered me a very good price($10/each). They won't fit into my UPS's case but an outboard battery pack is not that big a deal to me and I'd be tripling the run time capacity of my UPS. I'm curious if these batteries are good for anything else, like on board my boat as a house battery. I didn't count them but I'd guess he has about fifteen of them.
Thanks, John.....
What makes a "UPS" battery? | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by thunderhead (mail me from my homepage!) on Mon Sep 27th, 2004 at 11:35:13 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.simon.richardson.net/mailme.htm

There are two characteristics that make a lead acid battery "UPS" - how well they survive being "deep-cycled" and how well they survive years on float-charge.

For an off-grid application, they do not spend years on float-charge, because you use them to provide power too frequently.  A typical UPS application will be (part) discharged once in a year, or less frequently than that: whenever the grid power fails.  A home power battery will be discharged whenever the house consumption exceeds the output from the generators, which is probably several times a day.

The fork-lift batteries will come under the heading of "traction batteries", which means they don't mind deep and rapid discharge (very much).  A traction battery is probably a better choice for an off-grid system, even if your equipment was originally sold as a UPS. :-)

If you used them as a conventional UPS, the only problem you might encounter is that they don't last as long as true "UPS" batteries.  So they might last only five years instead of fifteen.

But at $10 each, I wouldn't complain.




Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Tue Sep 28th, 2004 at 10:53:41 AM MST
(User Info)

The fork-lift batteries will come under the heading of "traction batteries", which means they don't mind deep and rapid discharge (very much).

I think he said that the forklift battery supplier had gotten hold of a pallet of UPS batteries that he was looking to sell, so he was considering replacing the existing ones with a different UPS battery model rather than with forklift cells.

If you used them as a conventional UPS, the only problem you might encounter is that they don't last as long as true "UPS" batteries.  So they might last only five years instead of fifteen.

One caveat:  Figure out if your old cells are jell or flooded.  (Do they slosh if tipped?)  Replace only with the same class of cell:  The voltage setting for the charger is different for flooded versus jell.

[ Parent ]



Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by whatsnext on Tue Sep 28th, 2004 at 11:11:03 AM MST
(User Info)

Exactly. The guy I'm getting my forklift batteries from just happens to have these large UPS batteries. My current cells are wet and so are the bigger ones that I will be picking up today. I had kind of forgotten about my old UPS. It is rated at 1KW though so it might make a good backup for perhaps my pellet stove or something with a big enough battery or if the batteries are any good I'll buy four of them for my sailboat and make a nice house battery. 296 Ah at 12VDC for $40 sounds pretty good to me.
John........

[ Parent ]


Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by sh123469 (sh123469 at yahoo dot com) on Tue Sep 28th, 2004 at 12:53:43 AM MST
(User Info)

From what I have seen of them over the years, they are just regular gel cell type batteries, usually low in Ah capacity since the UPS is designed to run for a few minutes.  They are priced like gold for one reason, most UPS vendors either choose a goofball size or have one designed for them so you just about have to get their battery.  They generally last about 3 to 5 years on the constant float charge.  You also void your warranty or service contract if you replace the battery with other than their "official" battery.  Even if it is the same size and capacity.  Most UPS units constantly charge their batteries.  Especially the smaller ones.

I see no problem at all with using the larger batteries and going with an external battery pack.  I have done it several times.  I get what I can find locally at the electronics house, usually larger but same voltage, and use it.  



Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 28th, 2004 at 02:42:20 AM MST
(User Info)

Yes, I have 2 12v deepcycle batteries connected to an old UPS. Makes a great long term power inverter and backup either one. Mine is 24v so that's why I am using 2 115amp hr batteries on it.

What I am actually doing to the batteries I am not sure. No problems yet, but I do have wet tops. This is a dusty place off a dirt road, I have dry dust gray dust on them and shiney black tops where the dust is wet. Could be I over filled them alittle too much or I may be cooking them slowly. Been connected this way several months UPS mormally on and charging, but I have shut off power and used it as an inverter to power lights and such while working on wiring in the house and never had a problem so far.

Never toss a UPS because of dead batteries, just wire up the correct volts and use it as a Inverter :)

Heck even if you have to use some other methode of charging the batts other than the UPS charger. I'll be using wind on mine, just testing it so far this way.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.



Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by ghurd on Tue Sep 28th, 2004 at 05:54:28 PM MST
(User Info)

Hey John,

I've had good luck charging 'wet' batteries to 'sealed' battery control voltages.

This is for systems not needing as much as they can make.  Example: A wet battery is charged for days at 13.7v, is about the same as a sealed battery charged for a day at 13.7v.  96% is is close to 99%. About full is about full.

Replacing sealed batteries with wet batteries, in my experience, causes no problems in oversized charging systems.

Equilization. I haven't put in many that would allow for this, even at peak power. If this is an issue and power isn't available, do it at a friends house. Wet batteries in a normal UPS set up should interchange fine.

Keep in mind for most of what I do, dead batteries replace full batteries on a solar charger. When the battery being used is low, it is swapped with the battery being charged. I have installed many kw of these systems that will never be counted in any polls.  I think this is the most 'used' type of solar PV watts in the USA today, but anyone could argue against it. But I degress.

On a boat is a good use for any of this stuff.

G-



Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by whatsnext on Tue Sep 28th, 2004 at 09:23:00 PM MST
(User Info)

Hello G, Thanks to you and everyone else for the info. I pulled a couple off the shelf today. They both showed 12.46VDC. I put them on a small charger and once I get them up to a bit over 13VDC I'll plug them into the UPS and let that charger do the rest. The batteries have a May/03 manf date on them so they have been sitting around for a bit but for $10/each it would be hard to bitch. This is going to make a pretty industrial looking UPS that now will weigh about 200lb. If these work OK I'm going to get five more. Four for the boat and one, with one of those VW PVs, for the dock.
The house will still get the mega bank of forklift cells. If no one minds a little story: The battery guy offered me a couple of complete, cased 48V sets. 3600lbs each at the scrap price. They are an odd size that he doesn't think he will sell but test well. I explained that the appeal of the cells were that they are small enough for me to handle without a lift truck. He then showed me a lift truck that is for sale. Solar powered forklift anyone?
John.......

[ Parent ]


Re: What makes a "UPS" battery? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by ghurd on Wed Sep 29th, 2004 at 07:45:23 AM MST
(User Info)

VW PVs don't put out much. Do some math to see if the little thing will do you any good. My experience is the sealed batteries don't self-discharge as fast as regular batteries. But the VW PV may not keep up with self discharge and the lightest of use.
G-

[ Parent ]


What makes a "UPS" battery? | 8 comments (8 topical, 0 editorial)
Display: Sort:
Menu
· create account
· How to use the board
· FAQs
· search the board
· Google search the board
· Old Otherpower Board

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Total Views
  96 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

Related Links
· Also by whatsnext

Powered by Scoop
You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest © 2003 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!