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UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced with 8 foot 3 blade


By zubbly, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Fri Jan 14th, 2005 at 11:45:06 PM MST
much better performance than 2 blade

Hi all!   :-)

A few weeks back (probably a month or more) my 9 foot 2 blade prop had exploded during a severe wind storm.  Inspection showed that there was a large dent on the prop which was caused from hitting the tower. What i found on top of the tower was that the DC genny base had broken along with one bolt. Actually the base was broken in several spots, allowing the genny to tip forward. Thats when the prop hit the tower. After discussion with a few people about the prop, i do put some of the blame on the (apparent) problems that exist with 2 bladers when passing the tower. I guess there is some type of vibration that sets up and causes problems. I never did like the performance of the 2 blade as start up was not that good and got "nothing" at all in low winds. No more 2 bladers for me.

I welded on a new base to the genny ( an industrial duty 1 1/2 hp Leeson 180 volt DC permanent magnet motor). The shaft and bearings had no damage from the previous hit on the 2 blader. Mounted everything back on top of tower and put the new 3 blade on.

Performance is excellent, starts to spin in the least detectible breeze, and got peaks last night of 36 amp.  It was windy, but not severe winds.

There are 8 pictures to this post, plus a small movie clip of it spinning on the tower (not sure if it will work here or not).

Here is a picture of the destroyed 2 blade prop



The new blades are made from bass wood (nice stuff to carve, very tight and straight grain, similar to pine ). The stock was planed down to 1 7/8 inches thick by 6 inches wide. Length of each blade is 4 foot to make an eight foot blade.  I used outdoor wood glue and biscuits to glue on an extension to the root for better start-up. The blade is now 12 inches wide at the root. TSR is 7.

Finished carving



My son Chris holding the finished prop



The hub is made from 2 steel discs. 3/16 thick and 10 inches wide, held together with five 1/4 inch grade 8 bolts per blade.



The rear side view of the blade hub.  I like to use "weld on hubs", and weld it directly to the rear hub.  This hub has a 7/8 inch bore for the genny shaft, has a keyway, 2 set screws, and is mounted to shaft with a 3/8 bolt through from the front hub directly into the genny shaft which i had drilled and threaded.



The blade is perfectly balanced, and here you can see the balancing weight i used bolted directly from one of the hub plates.



Here are 2 sky shots with the new prop installed.





Here is a short movie clip of the prop spinning. The digi cam seems to give it an appearance of having 6 blades  LOL.  Not sure if this posting of the movie clip will work.



Well, hope you enjoyed the update of the old 9 foot exploded prop  :)

have fun,  zubbly

UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced with 8 foot 3 blade | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

9 foot exploded prop. replaced with 8 foot 3 blade (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Fri Jan 14th, 2005 at 08:09:31 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

cool zubbly !


congratulations on getting it back up.


If you want to do it, when I get back from here I can give you a hand to get your windmill stats online in realtime.


I like the artwork on the prop.
www.greenbits.com



Re: UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced wit (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by pyrocasto (pyrocasto at hotmail dot com) on Fri Jan 14th, 2005 at 09:08:27 PM MST
(User Info)

Loooks great Zubbly! I love the paint job as well.



Re: UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced wit (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Speo on Fri Jan 14th, 2005 at 10:46:36 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windpulse.com

Here is your movie: http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/253/3x8movie.AVI



[ Parent ]


Re: UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced wit (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by zubbly on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 06:03:09 AM MST
(User Info) www.zubbly.com

Hi Speo!

thanks a bunch on making a link so the movie can be viewed.  ( i am a puter dummy at heart)  :)

lol, thanks again

zubbly

[ Parent ]



Re: UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced wit (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 06:53:27 AM MST
(User Info)

congratulations Zubbly & Son! Excellent workmanship as usual! I also have been looking into very wide blades for the extra torque. Keep us informed as to how it performs. Nice paint job to, very high tech looking!!. Thanks for the share!

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!


Re: UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced wit (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by TomW on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 10:53:57 AM MST
(User Info)

Zubbly;

Nice new prop there, particularly like the paint job.

My vote for "cause of failure" is yaw shudder. I think the yaw shudder caused the stress that made the bolts fail which allowed the misalignment that led to the prop to tower impact.

My TDM mill in a gusty area with just a little 4 foot prop rattles extremely violently when it yaws while spinning. I can only imagine it is worse in a larger prop. My machine does not do this at all with 3 blade props of any size so I have to believe that yaw shudder is a real concern. I do not really think "tower shadow" or the like was to blame myself.

Cheers.

TomW

PS

I missed you by a couple minutes on IRC  this morning.

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain



Congrat (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Barnac (barnac@videotron.ca) on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 11:34:28 AM MST
(User Info)

Congratulation, very nice work Zubbly and thanks for the sharing. I hope that this blade set will perform beyong your expectations.

Also I am taking this opportunity to thank you for the real nice and very informative articles on motor rewinding.

Now I have a question as you seem to be very motor knowledgeable. Is there an easy way to indentify, in the field (like in a flea market) a permanent magnet motor ? Is there any indication on the nameplate ?

Regards



Re: Congrat (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by zubbly on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 02:12:42 PM MST
(User Info) www.zubbly.com

Hi Barnac!

To identify a permanent magnet motor in the field which may be (12vdc-automotive-blower motors) industrial permanent magnet motors (usually 90-180 vdc) first have a look to see what the name plate says. It should state that it is DC voltage, but necessarily does not mean that it is permanent magnet. Often on the industrial units, it will state both armature and field voltage. If the name plate area that states field as "PM", then it is definately permanent magnet. If it does state a field voltage, then it is not permanent magnet.  Aslo, you will only see 2 motor leads comming out of a permanent magnet motor.

On the motors with only 2 leads comming out, it "should" be considerably harder to turn the shaft when the 2 leads are joined together and very easy to turn when the leads are not joined together.

Just a point of interest! the genny that this new prop is attached to is a 1 1/2 hp industrial permanent magnet motor. the armature is 180vdc. Original name plate info states that full load amperage is 7.4 amp. I currently get 35 amp very easily in a good wind. I was also getting this with the 2 blade prop which i had up previously.

Now i know some will say it is going to burn out getting that amperage. I inspected the motor when i just had it down for the base repair. Inspection showed the armature was perfect, no signs of heating.

When i got this motor the armature was burnt. I rewound it with the original rewind data. the wire size is 1 #19 that it is wound with. keep in mind that each commutator bar holds 2 #19 wires and each brush contacts 2 commutator bars at the same time. so in theory, you actually have the equivalent of 1 #13 magnet wire handling the current.

hope this helps you in your search for a suitable motor.

 zubbly

[ Parent ]



Re: Congrat (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Barnac (barnac@videotron.ca) on Tue Jan 18th, 2005 at 12:12:36 PM MST
(User Info)

Thank you very very much Zubbly. I greatly appreciate your answer. That will help.

Barnac

[ Parent ]



Re: UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced wit (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Chuck on Sat Jan 15th, 2005 at 10:33:22 PM MST
(User Info) http://home.morrisonprairie.com

Hi Zubbly,
Looks nice. Reminds me of some electric guitar paint jobs I've seen.

OK, as you predicted, I have to pipe up and say that it is likely that you'll burn out the motor with prolonged use at 4x it's rated amperage. By prolonged use, I don't mean peaks that show up every once in a while. I had a motor that was rated at 13 amps that worked fine until it was subjected to 2 days of constant high winds, over 40mph with no letup. The highest I saw it actually go was ~30 amps, but towards the end I had no output and the prop was free spinning. The autopsy was disheartening and smelly. I wish you better luck.

Chuck



UPDATE! 9 foot exploded prop. replaced with 8 foot 3 blade | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)
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