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3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion
By Davesdiesel, Section Mechanical Posted on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 03:22:47 AM MST
diesel project

I got a JD165 3.3 diesel engine off Ebay $200.
Mounted it to a 2' dia x 1' hardwood log.
Added a G3 motorcraft 130 amp alternator to it. (belt driven 2 v belts) 1:1 ratio.
Added a diode to the sense wire off regulator to force output voltage to 14.6 cold and 14.1 hot.
Removed hopper tank and added a top plate with 3/4 nipple. Removed drain cock and installed a 1/4 nipple. Added a pump and circulate water in the botton and out the top of the engine. Water pumps from a barrel 16 gallons through the engine and back to the barrel. Added a thermometer to the barrel of water.
Test run. Engine shakes like crazy. Had to mount it to something heavy.
Engine noisy as heck. Can't run open in the neiborhood. I made an enclousure out of concrete wall board... lowes,$30.00 did the trick.
Ran 1 gallon of diesel fuel over 2 weeks on 1 -3 hour runs.
Loaded the alternator from 20 amps to full 60 amps and back. Ran mostly 20 amps. Engine rpm was from 1000 - 2000.. Mostly 1500 rpm.
Engine feels broke in now. Super eazy to turn flywheel by hand.
Engine uses 16 oz of diesel per hour on light load at 1200 rpm. Book says 300 g/hw.h at 1200 rpm.
Engine produces 5000 + btu of heat an hour at heated water.
Engine will take 16 gallons of water from 65 degreessF to 120 degreesf in 1 hour.
This project is for 24/7 winter backup heat/power for off times. A gas 3 kw 25 amp@120 volts is for demand loads 2-4 hours a day.
More later.
David

3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion | 25 comments (25 topical)

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by dave123 on Wed Oct 12, 2005 at 09:54:39 AM MST

This motor was brand new? What exactly is it? I cannot find any info on it via google.

Sweet project, and great price! I have been thinking of something like this for a long time, its just the cost of the motor that is prohibitive. I built a Briggs 3.5 hp and delco alternator, but it is not good for too many amps, and would probably wear itself out if I used it for any length of time.

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Davesdiesel on Thu Oct 13, 2005 at 03:09:35 PM MST

This is a JD165. Same type as a Changfa 165 water cooled diesel engine.

Here's one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-3-3hp-Water-cooled-Diesel-Engine-NO-Reserve_W0QQitemZ7553723242QQcategoryZ11 754QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I used a 1 to 1 ratio on mine. Seems to be the right balance. Cannot get 130 amps out of it though. turning to slow.. Can get 50-60 amps. Won't melt the alt or tear up the engine.

If you need 130 amps go 6 hp and 2- 130 amp alts.

You should see 100 amps realy clean power and no stress or meltdown of the alternator/engine combo.

My target is 90 amps so I can run a 6000 btu ac from a Dimensions Unlimited Inverter. same as a heart interface type inverters . Big transformer type.

6000 btu = 650 watts and 800 va Power factor .08 lagging.

Next test:

I'm going to add a 2 kw head to it and see if the 2 kw will do 1200 watts 24/7.
1200 watts and 5000 btu heat, that's enought for me. Tv, computer,sat box, small chest freezer and lights.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by w32514 on Sat Oct 15, 2005 at 03:14:41 AM MST

Are you using a thermostat? You should be for efficiency and longer engine life.

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Bullony13 on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 12:20:26 AM MST

How much noise does it make inside your concrete board enclosure? How close would you be able to run one of these things to your house/neighbors without annoying people with the noise?

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Davesdiesel on Sun Oct 16, 2005 at 06:19:33 PM MST

The cooling system now is just a loop and a pump and a plasiic barrel. Set up for testing only. A 160 f marine thermostat will be my summer and a 195 for winter.

I ordered a 2 hp single phase 120/240 3550 rpm electric motor on ebay $11.50 and will fit it on and implement a 1kw clean sine wave induction generator. I really hope this works good.

The concrete wall board box cuts down the noise from 90 db to 55 db. It works great. Can't here it running 200' away. Some issue with getting fresh air in there.

David

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by nickelbender on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 12:11:48 PM MST

Hopefuly the motor you bought is a capacitor start/run, you'll get a small but helpful improvemnt in efficiency

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Davesdiesel on Tue Oct 18, 2005 at 09:20:29 PM MST

hooked up the 2 hp single phase ccw rotation induction motor to the diesel and it works as a generator.
Had to remove the start cap and the run cap. Went to the local ac shop and pulled 6 run caps out of old condenser units. Hooked up 5 of them for 120 mf. The test run worked. Ran a 100 watt bulb. Next step is to get the gear ratio right and load her up. See some smoke maybe. More later..

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by nickelbender on Wed Oct 19, 2005 at 08:41:30 PM MST

Why did you remove the factory run caps? were they bad?
Don't change the values the machine was engineered to have that value of cap for max effecientcy at full load.
you can dump the start capacitor unless you planed on using it to start the generator (not a bad idea actualy....)

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Davesdiesel on Thu Oct 20, 2005 at 06:16:48 PM MST

I read this:

http://www.redrok.com/cimtext.pdf

and it must be wrong.

I reapplied the run cap and the motor works much better. 115v=60cycle with a Kill a watt meter. With no run cap I saw 125 volts at 77 hz.

Review. 130 mf run caps on 120 wired 1.5 hp terminals. Turning 1:3.25 ratio.
Not good. Engine way to slow. Have the correct pulley in the mail.

David

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by nickelbender on Fri Oct 21, 2005 at 08:46:48 PM MST

The truth about induction motors as generators is they.... suck....
You have no simple way to adjust your ouput voltage and frequency and they tend to drop as the machine is loaded.
If you run up the generator to full load and adjust your slip they work great but as the load changes so does the need to adjust your slip. And now it gets more complicated because as you load decreases you have to decrease capacitors to try and keep the Main and Aux windings 90 degs out of phase.

As part of a gride connected system they are great because they don't need any fancy sync gear. Or as a helper to a stand alone generator they can give you extra kVA, but alone they are a little unstable.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by Davesdiesel on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 01:30:52 PM MST

I agree on the motor in a gen situation with voltage dro, lag, slip, PF all over the place, non constant output, all the above.... In my case i have a 3.3 diesel as a winter backup heat and power project.

Had a 6 day ice storm power outage here years back and lived on a kerosene heater. That really sucked. This time i will run the watercooled diesel and extract the heat from the coolant. A $16.00 heater core from (Advanced auto parts) and an ebay 12 volt blower assembly( out of a 280z) $.99 will complete the heater. Lamps will be used in series as a speed control and some light.

I need a load of 60% rated at rpm to get 270 g/kw,h. (best fuel on this engine) To do this I will use the induction motor and incandesent flood lamps inside the house. The chihuahuas love the heat these lamps produce. Voltages changes don't matter for this.

For computer and sat box and 25" tv I will use a HF 800 watt inverter on 220 AH bat bank hooked to a 130 amp G3 ford alternator (13.8v reg at alt terminal) driven from the same engine.

Fuel consumtion on Induction motor as generator with 900 watt heater (corrected to 625 watts, 16 ohm element at 100 volts) load at 100 volts (to slow, wrong pully, to big) 24 oz per hour. 5.33 hour per gallon. Same load on 3 kw gas genset gets. 36 oz per hour. 3.6 hours gallon.

32 % increase in efficency exactly what the books say. So the math works. Now I get 7000 btu of heat on top of that = in watts 2100. So I get 2 kw of heat for free. 2 kw of heat off my air cooled 3 kw gas genset would be max load on a 3 kw continuasly and would cost me $1 an hour to produce.

Project should be over 60% efficent.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by nickelbender on Sat Oct 22, 2005 at 02:54:41 PM MST

Sounds good to me.
I too have been thinking of this but I believe the best long term solution would be a to tie generator batteries and alternate (wind... hydro... solar... ect) together. The simplest thing I can come up with is a small diesle, syncro converter(bi directional AC-DC) wind water and batteries. Co-gen and load dumps to supliment heat also a great idea and perhaps even a waste oil/wood gas system to heat water and make charcoal to supliment the fuel oil for the diesle.

Thats my short list of paranoid techno poop all tied in together. The main point here is (lost in the begining) is to try and keep the genset running at the point where it produces the most use able energy for the least fuel(base load). Everything else is tied in to try and keep the system stable threw the peaks.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Davesdiesel on Wed Nov 02, 2005 at 04:45:20 AM MST

Update:
40 hours on engine. No oil consumption. Fuel consumption at 16 oz hour 1/2 load.
Drawbacks. Engine shakes so much I put it on a 8X8 treated post 4' in the ground with 2' sticking out. Motor mounted on top. Sends the vibration into the ground and seems to work real good.
Problem now is I lost the 1.5 electric motor I set up as a generator due to vibration. Shorted out the windings. This motor lasted 12 hours.
Next step is to mount 2 poles and run a lay shaft from the diesel to the other pole. The 2nd pole will not be shaking and won't kill the windings.

Test run before it died was 600 watt load resistive runing 45 minutes with slight warming of the induction motor windings. Voltage was 130 and the lamps were nice and bright.

Friends don't let friends operate homemade diesel gensets drunk.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Davesdiesel on Fri Nov 04, 2005 at 10:38:53 PM MST

Update::
This China built engine suffers from a serisously out of balance flywheel.
If you want on of these engines to operate, you will need to Balance the flywheel.
Once the flywheel is balanced the engine opperates great.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Davesdiesel on Sun Nov 06, 2005 at 10:00:33 PM MST

Update on update...
This little engine has been shaking way to much. In my attempt to smooth out the vibration I added weights to the flywheel at the holes in the casting. After bout 8 hours I tried somethine radical. I added 2 1/2 carrage bolts with 5 big washers to the 2 holes which added quite a lot of weight. The ballance of the extra weight is oppisite the rod big end. Now the engine runs real smooth..Someone left off the crankshaft counter balance weights. At 1800 rpms there is no vibration. Sweet.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by nickelbender on Wed Nov 09, 2005 at 08:36:43 PM MST

Cool....
You need to snap a pick or two of that.

Whats next?

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by Davesdiesel on Sat Nov 19, 2005 at 11:22:38 PM MST

This project is over now since the crankshaft bearing came apart. What a shame. The little engine looks well built. But at any moment in time Boom and there it is a useless piece of junk.

In summery, The diesel engine affords some benifets in fuel consumtion but in this case I am better off with my Gas powered 3 kw genset.

This project was a total waste of time.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by Davesdiesel on Mon Nov 21, 2005 at 09:14:21 AM MST

I pulled the retainer off the bad bearing and seperated the bearing races and let the balls fall out. I found the inner race had a big spot on it where the shock pulses from detonation hammered the balls into the race. Strangest thing I have ever seen. So it appears the trash didn't cause the bearing to lock up.. The bearing was pounded to death. This is a concern. All these type engines use ball bearings on the crank. Sounds like a ticking time bomb. Has anyone else had this happen?
No more power Dave

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by nickelbender on Mon Nov 21, 2005 at 08:40:31 PM MST

Bearings are fickel things....
I believe this is called Brinnelling damage. I also suspect you can't pronounce the manufacturer of the bearing if they even bothered to mark it at all. I had a simmilar problem years ago with a cheap line of bearings called NACHI. Poor heat treating at manufacture made the inner race too hard and they tended to crack. I don't for a moment believe a FAG of SKF would last for long with the coditions you discribed, but my guess is you may have had a little more warning.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by Davesdiesel on Tue Nov 22, 2005 at 04:36:27 PM MST

Pix are here. They speak for them selfs..

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

Here you can see where the pressure was hitting the bearing. This was pounded to death. outer race reads "" 6207 CSC "".
David

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by Davesdiesel on Tue Nov 22, 2005 at 05:04:51 PM MST

csc bearing co., ltd., changshu, jiangsu, China
a best manufactor in the line of bearings, including ball bearings and roller bearings.

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by Davesdiesel on Tue Nov 22, 2005 at 06:58:38 PM MST

Here's a link to another JD-165 with troubles.

http://www.theredlands.com/JD

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by Davesdiesel on Wed Nov 23, 2005 at 01:11:07 PM MST

Here's a closeup.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by paolope on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 10:58:33 AM MST

Hi
I have the same problem with JD165 shaking. can you show images of the modification?
BTW I have the manual for JD165-R165
paolo

[ Parent ]

Re: 3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by nickelbender on Sat Jan 28, 2006 at 10:00:00 PM MST

Yup thats buggered, too bad. I've decided to buy an Indian slow speed engine...
Hopefuly I'll have better luck

Doug

3.3 HP Diesel test run JD165 fuel consumtion | 25 comments (25 topical)

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