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220V 50Hz


By Stonebrain, Section Wind
Posted on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 08:15:48 PM MST
what's so special about grid-tied gennies

I'm a newbie and my first genny is not build yet.
I did some reading though and I can't find out why
tying a genny to the grid is so difficult.
If I build a pm axial flux like the ones on
this terrific site,but with enough poles and wire
to make 220V 50Hz monophase at,say 100 rpm and I plug it
in the grid what will go wrong?
I expect it to stay at 100rpm,no matter the action
of the blades.
I see there is a problem with the blades.At constant speed
they will make power in a very low range of windspeed because
of stall at higher windspeeds.
But apart the blades,what's the problem?
No batteries,no dumploads,just a plug.I recognize
that's to nice to be true.
I feel I missed something somewhere,but what?
Does anyone more about this,or can point me to
some reading?

cheers,
stonebrain

220V 50Hz | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by whatsnext on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 02:41:02 PM MST
(User Info)

Nice moniker.



Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 05:01:23 PM MST
(User Info)

  Whatsnext....You have such a way with words
      LOL !
  Stonebrain,
    What could go wrong ?
  could be a fitting epithet for some lineman?
                    ( :>) Norm
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]


Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Stonebrain on Sat Oct 15th, 2005 at 05:51:25 AM MST
(User Info)

whatnext,norm,
I couldn't find 'moniker' in my dictionary,
'epithet' was there,but anyway,poetry is not my
strong point.
cheers,
stonebrain

[ Parent ]


Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by whatsnext on Mon Oct 17th, 2005 at 11:36:36 AM MST
(User Info)

Stonebrain, Look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moniker

[ Parent ]


Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Flux on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 02:46:04 PM MST
(User Info)

Synchronising any alternator on to the grid is not something to be undertaken lightly.
The voltages must be equal and they have to be in phase and at the same frequency.

To do this with a steam turbine with the right equipment is reasonably simple. To do it with a small diesel engine is much more difficult as you have much less control of speed and phase, you have to make a pretty smart decision at the moment when it is right. I can't believe that you could ever do this with one component being turned by wind power. Even if you get in sync I doubt that it will hold in with the torque fluctuations from a windmill.

Synchrouus generators are not normally used with wind power without some form of hydraulic coupling or more commonly going through a dc link.

Normal small grid tie generators use an asynchronus generator or an alternator and dc link via an inverter.

DON'T ever try to connect a pm alternator to the grid.

Flux



Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Stonebrain on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 04:25:43 PM MST
(User Info)

And if I connect it without propulsion,
won't it act as motor and get in phase by itself?

[ Parent ]


Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by drdongle (Dr.Dongle1@juno.com) on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 05:00:50 PM MST
(User Info)

Possiably
Carpe Vigor, Dr.D
[ Parent ]


Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by John II (jjones2(at)inetvisions.net) on Fri Oct 14th, 2005 at 06:59:02 PM MST
(User Info)

Hi Stonebrain:

Yes you can do this quite easily with a Synchronous Generator. Do a Google Search on this, and you'll find it's been discussed on this forum quite a bit as well.

Even standard ac motors can function as synchronous generators... just over drive their shaft speed fractionally faster than normal.

Make sure you have NO line capacitors on the motor, or it will generate and back feed into the grid if the grid happens to be down and you will electrocute line repairmen.

Most utility companies that I know of insist your system complies to meet their safety requirements and usually require an interface box which they sometimes what a fortune for : )

Play it safe and don't invite litigation.

Also yes you lock in your rotor speed by directly generating to the grid. If you have rather constant strong winds, this won't be a problem, but if you are in an area where this is not so, then you will not produce that much power.

All the older commercial wind generators worked like this, but they are moving on to higher technologies that allow them to take advantage in all kinds of wind situations.

John II




Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by hvirtane (hannu_markus_virtanen(at)yahoo(dot)com) on Sat Oct 15th, 2005 at 01:48:12 PM MST
(User Info) http://web.archive.org/web/20050404022706/www.cc.jyu.fi/~hvirtane/cooker/

"Yes you can do this quite easily with a Synchronous Generator."

You should say:

"Yes you can do this quite easily
with an Asynchronous Generator."

- Hannu

[ Parent ]



Re: 220V 50Hz (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Stonebrain on Sat Oct 15th, 2005 at 12:54:03 PM MST
(User Info)

Flux,John,

Don't worry men,
I won't try it with a 10kw at full speed :)
In fact it seems indeed that asynchronous generators are
better for it,and cheaper.
If there are good DIY concepts of it,wy not.
But I got a renault 25 front wheel diskbrake hub
(fine,these a kind of things are for free) and
I'm really in for a 220V 50Hz xxxrpm generator.
Even if you have something between 120-230 V and
30-60Hz lots things can work on it like accuchargers
and computer powersupplies.
But certainly I will have some things to ask
about it and some things to show when I have a
digicam.
Thanks for the comments

ciao,
stonebrain



220V 50Hz | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)
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