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Turbine #4
By wpowokal, Section Wind Posted on Sun Nov 13, 2005 at 02:10:04 PM MST
The Phoenix flies

Finally we have the re-born tripple rotor up and flying as a duel rotor, OK it's a long story best suited for a diary entry later. It's fallen from the sky twice, a steep learning curve which I will share as time permits.
As always little wind since raising, but have seen 16amps briefly @ 24 V system.
Its a Hugh Piggot duel rotor design built for 24V using wedge shape magnets 40x20x50mm 5mm thick doubled up. Coils are 135 turns of bifilear wound 0.9mm.
The blades are 3m diamiter made out on Oak, our first blades from Oak but its very straight grain.
This time the angle from root to tip is linear, and they run much quiter.
Cut in is 185 rpm @ 25 volt or 7.33 rpm/volt.Wave form.....
This is the linch pin, I not only live off Re but process my fruit from it, this unit is to supply sufficient power to run the cool room in summer. Expected to supply 1 Kw with our summer winds.

Turbine #4 | 12 comments (12 topical)

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Experimental on Sun Nov 13, 2005 at 09:01:58 AM MST

Super Allen,
Those oak blades really look good, and smooth sine wave -- that must be that beautiful inverter I saw in your files !! (I need one of those !)
From the look of the guy wires, you aren,t takeing any chances with this one either --(nice erection!!)
Will have a new tower up soon myself, and hopeing I can get clean air then, insted of the turbulated stuff I get now !!
Enjoyed your post, and very nice, Bill H..............

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Experimental on Sun Nov 13, 2005 at 09:09:25 AM MST

SORRY, after i read it again, I realize the wave pattern is from gen !!
Good day, Bill......

[ Parent ]

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by TomW on Sun Nov 13, 2005 at 11:27:54 AM MST

Allan;

Great! I remember when this was in the concept stage discussing it on IRC. Always great to see someone getting a mill up. Sure looks like a good way to stay off grid and continue to process fruit.

Is that using the trailer axle as a hub or am i suffering the alshiemers again?

Cheers.

TomW

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by wpowokal on Sun Nov 13, 2005 at 03:58:59 PM MST

Yew Tom it's the one Trivio (Grant) built, a simple trailer stub axel, basicall as Hugh describes in his book. I added a bearing to the lower part of the pipe over pipe piviot it was a little flippy floppy.

We have retained the option of going back to a tripple if desired but need to get some stats on this as is first.

We had it all up then decided to increase the clearences by 1mm, so after a controlled lowering and raising its flying. When we build another I would use roller bearings with a thrust bearing if required. Increasing the gap did not raise the cut-in speed its still 7.33rpm/V.

Looking forward to hearing about yours Tom.

regars allan down under

"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
[ Parent ]

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by wpowokal on Sun Nov 13, 2005 at 04:07:13 PM MST

Easy to see its morning here and Allan is not awake yet, read Bill in my last post.
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
[ Parent ]

Update (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by wpowokal on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 04:59:24 PM MST

OK the winds arived last nite seen Phynix doing 30+ amps at times into the 24V system, albiet it was at 31V by 6am.

So it works spiffingly, blades are almost silent even in good winds so I know what profile all future blades will be.

Its come a long way from here

but you get that on the big jobs.

allan down under
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean

Re: Update (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Experimental on Tue Nov 15, 2005 at 12:55:19 PM MST

Hey Allen,That pile of bent metal, and "Grounded generator", looks nasty -- and you sure have advanced from there !!
Was looking at the pics in your files -- did I see, swept back tips on your blades, or am I seeing things ???
Have been sweeping back the tips on mine, at 30 degrees -- they seem to run quieter, and hopefully reduces vortex tip loss !!??
It,s difficult to prove that, as a lot of things "we" try, isen,t measurable , without, minute measuring devices -- But, the quiet running feature alone, is a good result !!
I do my experimenting , at home -- unfortunitely, thats surrounded by, Very tall trees, and neighbors, close by !!
Hopefully, my new tower should help, meanwhile, I get to admire yours !!
WELL done, G,day -- Bill H..........

[ Parent ]

Re: Update (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by wpowokal on Tue Nov 15, 2005 at 04:47:36 PM MST

Bill, previously I use a blade design program that had a steep angle at the root then a pronounced change towards the tip. But very noisy, not that I mind (a) i'm faily deaf (b) I'm on a farm so nobody else cares, (c) I like to hear it.

But having used this linear angle change from root to tip its like super quite, well to me anyway.

I think the program I used came from Hugh's site (origional program). But we got greedy and suffered. But its making power now oh yes when the wind blows.

allan down under
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
[ Parent ]

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 09:28:00 PM MST

Looking good.

For future reference: A given amount of magnets and winding copper will generate more power on a largeer daimeter dual-rotor than a smaller diameter triple rotor.

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by wpowokal on Mon Nov 14, 2005 at 10:23:25 PM MST

Agreed on diamiter, it's been a very steep learning curve made worse by the fact that I do/should know better on tower design.

But we now have data on tripple rotor and duel rotor. When the tripple threw a weight, I tried shorting it out to stop it, well I should have been Scottish and Pi***d into the wind. It just made more amps, like 80A, the reast is history and we still have not retrieved all the magnets.

Then the fun is in the learning, IMHO.

allan down under
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
[ Parent ]

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Tue Nov 15, 2005 at 01:02:59 PM MST

Actually, even at the same diameter a dual rotor beats a triple rotor. Each coil sees twice as many magnets and twice as much flux delta.

(Of course you usually can't get everything to fit without increasing the diameter.) B-)

[ Parent ]

Re: Turbine #4 (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by wpowokal on Tue Nov 15, 2005 at 04:53:10 PM MST

Yes Trivio built the unit origionally, and may I say a very good job of it too. We have learnt much since, mainly since I broke it twice, someone should have told Grant if anybody can breake it I can, but so many tasks so little time, which one next.

allan
"Dream as if you'll live forever, live as if you'll die today." James Dean
[ Parent ]

Turbine #4 | 12 comments (12 topical)

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