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birds and wind turbines
By Oly, Section Wind Posted on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 10:52:35 PM MST
How many dead birds?

I have a question for all of you with wind turbines, about birds and the wind turbine location. I'm thinking of adding wind power to our small off-grid cabin (which currently has only solar power), and will probably try to build one of the designs discussed on this board. My wife is a biologist who helps site large wind power projects. As well, she is an avid bird-watcher. A big issue with the large scale wind farms is the impact on birds and bats. They can be killed by the windmills and this must be taken into consideration when siting the turbines.
For the off-grid RE folks here, are there any resources available for planning turbine location, in order to minimize the impacts to the birds? I'm curious, too, how many bird/bat kills you tend to find around your turbines. Or do the coyotes pick 'em up before you find them? Our windmill won't go over too well if my wife has to collect too many dead ones.
Thanks for any input,
Oly

birds and wind turbines | 17 comments (17 topical)

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by christopher on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 04:15:11 PM MST

Just from my observations of my samll mill that's only been flying about a year, I think window glass will kill far more birds than any home windmill. The closest i've ever seen a bird to my mill is when it is perfectly calm and they will light on the blades. Otherwise, they give it wide berth. If its turning slow enough it is quite visible, and if its turning really fast for the tips to almost vanish it is noisey enough to alert any bird, unlike silent, reflective window glass.
Regards,
Christopher

window glass (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Norm on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 04:54:34 PM MST

Yeah...as soon as I seen this posting...it
br ought to mind that commercial where they tell
one crow to fly down and check the window...
Yep I imagine window glass would be a bigger
concern than windmills.
Norm.
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by TomW on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 05:58:58 PM MST

I think this whole dead birds from windmills thing is bull and here is why:

TV towers and cell phone towers typically kill birds regularly. You kill birds driving regularly. Add those up and I bet you accumulate more dead feathered critters than all the windmills combined. Yet nobody calls for the cessation of driving or cell phone use or broadcasting.

It is just another roadblock tossed up by uninformed folks so they can look at cell towers on their skyline instead of turbines. Even then it is the guy cables that actually kill the birds because they are small and they fly into them in fog, clouds, etc the fall probably actually kills them after impact.

We feed birds by a large window and a LOT of them kill themselves trying to fly thru the house by smacking into the windows.

Should we quit feeding the birds?

Ultimately all human activity impacts wildlife but you don't see people reverting to living like a cro magnan to save the critters.

Just one set of views.

Cheers.

TomW

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by adelaide on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 06:04:27 PM MST

have 5 w mills for over year and no known fether dusters made yet and mine painted sky blue wouldent help

[ Parent ]

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by motorhead2 on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 06:16:34 PM MST

Birds for some reason like sitting or whatever they do on my rotor.Ive even seen them ride it at less 10rpm its like a little birdie merrygoround.Byby after that but fun to see.
Mark
[ Parent ]

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by MelTx on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 06:13:21 PM MST

Solution #1 Throw a large backyard party,invite all the neighborhood birds..Have a nice talk with them, tell them how pretty their feathers are and how nice they look when flying..Say a lot of wonderful things and raise their self esteem and then the birds wont feel so suicidal..but keep plenty of stray cats around just to be sure....

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by elvin1949 on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 08:23:22 AM MST

cats don't work.
fire up the gumbo pot that works.
Birds don't want to be supper.
later
elvin

[ps]had to replace 2 window's after birds
commited suiside on them this year.

[ Parent ]

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by drdongle on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 07:16:45 PM MST

Don't lose any sleep over it, far more birds are killed by domestic cats that wind turbines ever will.
Carpe Vigor, Dr.D

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Experimental on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 07:27:05 PM MST

Hi Oly,
Being concerned with the same thoughts -- I solved that , by painting the tips of my blades red !!
Spinning at high speed, they are highly visible, and between that, and the swishing noise they make, the birds give them a wide berth !!
There are an abundance of bats at night (summer time) but I,m sure, those spinning blades, would look like a solid disc to there "radar".. and i have never found a dead one, in two years..
A red and white stripe on your tips -- I believe you could put your concerns to rest....
Put that wind gen up --- Bill H......

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by phil b on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 07:28:06 PM MST

I've been flying wind generators for about 3 years. All with different blade configurations. Some make different tones, shooshes or whatever you care to call it. The birds never bother the units when there is even the slightest movement. I have not found any dead birds around my generators. However, they love to check in with their buddys while sitting on the tail or the blades during calm wind conditions. Birds attempting to light on the generator blades can be comical if they are heavy enough to make the blades turn. I conclude, unless they are sick, mentally deranged, or just plain stupid, birds have enough common sense to stay away when the wind is blowing. That's much more sense than some people have!

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by windstuffnow on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 08:38:44 PM MST

I'm a bird lover myself, I've been flying various wind turbines for many years and have yet to find a dead bird around my mills. I think for the most part the smaller turbines that spin fairly fast the birds can see the movement and it keeps them away. The large turbines that are chugging along real slowly the birds don't see the blade comming or think its going slower than they are.

I've killed more birds with my front window than anything else, the wild cats around here catch a few. I've covered my front window with moving things ( small downy feathers taped to fishing line mostly ) and haven't had a window kill in years now.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by Laylow on Wed Nov 30, 2005 at 10:54:52 PM MST

I've seen a lot of dead birds around a few large turbines nearby. I had always assumed it would be a problem with the smaller turbines as well but I guess not.

To the person that painted theirs red: did your turbine kill any before the paint job?

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Experimental on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 10:30:37 AM MST

Haven,t had any actual strikes, but had a vulture come so close, I don,t know how he missed it -- and it did a very quick movement, just as it passed..
Being concerned about such a large bird, takeing out the blades of the mill -- I painted the tips...
The mill now has a very visible red "halo", when spinning !! Bill H...

[ Parent ]

birds and wind turbines some facts! (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Jon Miller on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 01:38:07 AM MST

Hello all

I have got some facts about bird death rates from a 'Environmental Statement' book for the local (about 15 miles away) wind farm with a praposed 27, 2.8 Mega watt, 150 feet tall turbines.

Thes figures include the fact there is a large bird sanctuary located 5miles away from the site they have chossen.

Rember that these figures are for 150 feet tall turbines with 90 feet diameter blades!!

Hope this helps to show you its very unlikly you will kill many birds if any!! Regards

Jon M www.otherpower.co.uk

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by wildbill hickup on Thu Dec 01, 2005 at 04:45:40 AM MST

I too think that window glass is much more inviting for a bird to fly into. Case in point, I have been working on a small greenhouse, solar room, sun room whatever you want to call it and after installing the glass on the south side(north side still open) in one day I had two birds run into the windows, fortunatly neither of them seemed to be hurt. I quickly covered the northside and haven't had any hits since(that I know of) In the two years I have been flying a small windgen I have never seen a dead bird near it. Like others I did enjoy the antics of a starling trying to pearch on one of the blades one calm day though. All this concern with wind turbines and birds seems a little small when we have millions of speeding cars,and airplanes, billions of square feet of glass (some standing hundreds of feet in the air) farm machinery that distroys the eggs of ground nesting birds, oh and I'm sure the birds killed buy contaminated air around these very attractive smoke beltching powerplants and factorys.

Well I had typed more but in rereading it, it was starting to sound like a soap-box rant so I'll leave it hear.

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Oly on Fri Dec 02, 2005 at 03:49:56 PM MST

Well thanks everyone for your responses. Sounds like we won't have a problem with the birds and gen. Did make me think, though, about all those birds hitting our windows. I like the idea of the feathers on string, maybe we'll put up a few of those and give the bluebirds a better chance next spring. Oly.

Re: birds and wind turbines (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by witapple on Sat Dec 03, 2005 at 09:32:57 PM MST

Have had a 13 foot diameter blade running for 25 years and have not found 1 dead bird. I am sure I have killed at least 50 (probably more) birds with my car in the last 25 years.
Dan W

birds and wind turbines | 17 comments (17 topical)

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