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two phase in series?
By electrondady1, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 06:19:17 PM MST
if i rectify seperatly then run in series?

i wont bore you with the details of the really lame mags i'm using but i was thinking of runing a two phase stator with shared legs on each phase rectifying them seperately and then runing the dc outputs in series.
ok,ok, im just trying to use up most of the ceramic mags ive been experimenting with for the last two years. i've officially converted to neoism but i don't want these things hanging around the shop collecting iron filings for the next ten years.
there are 32 poles on a 14"rotor. i tested a single coil open faced(one rotor)
@60 rpm i'm getting .2 volts ac. on the meter. using 65 turns of 23 gauge. (this coil was part of another experiment)
my thinking is, by using 2 phase in series i can harvest all the flux with all the coils ,minimise the total number of turns and still harvest some amps with an output of 14 volts
14vdc=7+7 per phase divided by 1.4 rectified = 5vac per phase divided by 32= .156vac per coil and with a second rotor in place only only .o78 vac is required from each coil.
"SOMEBODY STOP ME"

two phase in series? | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by electrondady1 on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 11:33:41 AM MST
(User Info)

i have an additional question.
there seems to be a convention when relating formulas on a computor .
you guys use this ^ symbol, what does this mean?

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Clifford on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 12:23:06 PM MST
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I must say that I haven't read all of the formulas yet.

However, in general the ^ symbol means to the power of....

^ 3 would be Four Cubed = 64
^ (1/2) would be four to the half power which is the square root of four = 2

I would assume that is the same convention that is being used here. Does it make any sense?

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by electrondady1 on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 01:22:10 PM MST
(User Info)

thanks clifford that does make sense and should be helpfull.

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Jerry on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 12:34:03 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

Hi electrondady1.

What is these size of your ceramic magnets. I made a dual rotor alt with 24 of the Lowes $1 ceramic blocks.

It is the standard 24 mags (12 per rotor) and 9 coil 3 phase. Saw over 225 watts at 30 mph and cut in befor 10 mph. 10" rotors.

You might concider that and if you have enough magnets make 2 gennys?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Jerry on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 01:31:23 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.dplusv.com/Photo-03.html

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by electrondady1 on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 02:44:23 PM MST
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hello jerry, thanks for responding , as a matter of fact it was your experiment with the 120 volt delco alternator that got me thinking along these lines .
like your self i found i had collected quite a few hefty ceramic mags from loudspeakers(i play bass guitar)over the years.
i just cut them into segments with a wet tile saw. these mags have been used in about a half a dozen different configurations exploreing different shapes , spacing, etc.
the last experiment was a three phase tripple rotor, dual stator, it used 12 coils(on each stator) over 16 poles(four mags each ) on 10" disks . i beleave i got 8 volts dc from this configuration using a total of 24 coils of 19 gauge using 32 turns.
a vawt is the most practical for my situation so i want the genni to cutin at around 60 rpm.
so using about the same magnetic mass ive dubbled the no. of poles and opened up the dia. to 14" for more linear velosity.
these poles are formed from three seperate mags. 1/2" thick. they form a wedge shaped pole that is 2 5/8" long 7/8" wide at it's widest and taper down to only 1/4".
it would probably be possible to use the twenty four coils from the tripple rotor unit on this one . and go 3 phase. the poles are about the same size.

it would also be possible to place all the ceramic mags in green garbage bag and toss them into the river! but, i grew up so poor i have a very hard time throwing anything away.

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Clifford on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 12:45:17 PM MST
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With the same number of magnets and coils, you still have a single phase stator.

consider wiring every other coil backwards.... (Inside-outside)-(outside-inside)-(inside-outside)

or winding every other coil in the opposite direction....

that way you can connect your "North" and "South" coils together without any problem.

Somebody else will have to calculate whether it is a good idea to wire all 32 coils in series.

As I understand it, the "cogging" is less if you wire in 3 phase rather than in single phase.

I think I've also seen where people have effectively overlapped coils for 3 phase... For example, rather than using 32 coils and 32 magnets, using 96 coils with the 32 magnets. Of course, you may loose some proximity to the magnets if one isn't careful.

Not sure what you would get by squishing the coils and doing 64 coils side by side, but it might be an interesting experiment (which you could, of course, simulate with 2 or 4 coils on your test machine). I think in that case, you would have to rectify each phase separately as you would technically have 2 independent phases.

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by electrondady1 on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 03:10:12 PM MST
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hello again clifford,
if you read the responce to jerry's post you will be able to see were i'm at with my experiments.
about a year ago a fellow(sorry no link or name) responded to one of windsuff ed's posts showing how he had created overlapping coils by glueing plastic tubeing side by side to form the stator. once it was setup he cut a slot in each tube and used the cavity to retain the legs of his coils .
i thought it was kinda' slick. and wanted to give it a try.
he just wrapped the copper in every other tube, first clockwise and then counterclockwise so that two coil legs shared the same space like an automotive alternator. then for the next phase he did the same thing with the rest of the tubing .
no soldering and no squeezing involved . and the result was, the stator was pretty much solid copper!

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Clifford on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 05:45:23 PM MST
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Yes...

I need to start running some of my own experiments. But, I thought it would be good to start simple too.

Here is the alternator that I had seen a while ago with 3 phases / magnet. Perhaps it is the same one you are refering to.

http://www.windstuffnow.com/main/alt_from_scratch.htm

Hopefully I'll at least have my first "exer-gen" up and running soon (starting with stock 12V bicycle generators, but who knows where I'll end up).

[ Parent ]

post-apocalyptic style rotor (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by electrondady1 on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 09:05:12 PM MST
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is that not a thing of beauty! and such a precise devise. i'd love to see the wave form this creature produces. could be scary.

[ Parent ]

Re: post-apocalyptic style rotor (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by electrondady1 on Sun Dec 4th, 2005 at 09:46:34 PM MST
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it's really not as bad as it looks! the mags are actualy under size and fit within a specific space

[ Parent ]

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Clifford on Wed Dec 14th, 2005 at 10:38:03 PM MST
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I like your magnets...

However, since they are an odd shape... (it looks like an irregular vertical profile away from the flywheel).

I wonder if it would have been better to put wax paper or plastic wrap on your flywheel assembly, lay the magnets out, epoxy them, then flip the whole unit and epoxy to the flywheel.

That way you would minimize the gaps between the magnets and the stator assembly.

(ok, so I am always full of good ideas) :D

Re: two phase in series? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by ghurd on Thu Dec 15th, 2005 at 12:18:00 AM MST
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That will leave a gap between the magnets and disk. The result would be about the same but probably a little worse than having a larger air gap in one place.
I believe a steel shim under the thinner magnets would be best, to complete the flux path.

[ Parent ]

two phase in series? | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial)

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