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90vdc for CFL ??
By PaulM2, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 01:54:16 AM MST
Did someone say this

Did I see recently where someone here posted a brief statement that you can run compact florescent lights with 90volts dc ? With 7 or 8 12v small gel cells you could make a nice efficient light. A 13w cfl only draws about 110mA.

90vdc for CFL ?? | 13 comments (13 topical)

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by BT Humble on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 10:16:20 PM MST

Although it wouldn't be very compact, and difficult to match to a charging system (unless you disconnected all the cells and reconnected them in parallel to charge?)

Oatley Electronics in Australia will sell you a kit that steps 12VDC up to 350VDC to drive up to 50W worth of compact fluorescents. Note that this is for 240VAC compact fluorescents (we don't have 120VAC wiring in Australia).

I've experimented with my 15W fluoro inverter, and it almost works on a 12W CFL. Personally, I think that straight tube (15W/18", 20W/24" and 36W/48") fluorescents give a better light output, at a substantially lower cost.

BTH

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by ibedonc on Mon Feb 14, 2005 at 11:06:25 PM MST

it was me , I can supply you with a board that will run them off 3v - 36v and about 600watts of them

which I more then most will use

TomW is getting one to test

here is a prototype version

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Paulm on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 12:01:11 PM MST

Are you powering the CFL with it's normal screw base. Does your circuit convert up to a higher voltage ac ? I guess they won't run on dc.

[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by ibedonc on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 03:05:26 PM MST

connected the output of dc/dc ( putting out 96v dc ) to lamp cord with 13w cfl screwed into it , not changed to cfl were made , you could also string 8 12v bats together and run them also

my board is a dc/dc that converts low volt dc to a higher volt dc

[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by nothing to lose on Wed Feb 16, 2005 at 03:20:58 PM MST

"it was me , I can supply you with a board that will run them off 3v - 36v and about 600watts of them"

Couple questions.
First about how much does the board cost ready to use.

v-36V ? Is that user adjustable, one board fits all, or is that name your volts and you build it to that spec like 24v and it's always 24v then?
watts, you mean actaul watts being used by the CFL themselfs or their supposed light output rating. Like the package says 100watts of light but claims it only uses 15 watts of power. So would that be 6x100light watts for 600watts or 20x15power watts for 600watts of actual power usage. I figure the last one, power usage watts but wanted to be sure.

Also do these only work with the screw in types, or also with the 4' long tubes? If it works with the tube types I suppose you still need everything in the fixture still or will the tubes run ok connected directly?
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by ibedonc on Wed Feb 16, 2005 at 04:09:51 PM MST

for using with lights and not charging batteries then any volts form 6v to 48v will work , the board needs a 12v .5 amp logic supply that could be provided via a 7812 regulator or a tap off one of your 12v or 2 6v batteries , the output volts is adjustable up to 330v , you only need a max of 130v dc for cfl's

600 watts - adding up the actual cfl watts i.e 15w x 20 is what I ment

a custom version could be made for higher watts

if you have a electronic ballast , it could work to power the 4' tubes , but the wsb could also power the tube without a ballast by modifling it to but out the higher volts

I will be testing that

[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by nothing to lose on Thu Feb 17, 2005 at 01:59:02 AM MST

"600 watts - adding up the actual cfl watts i.e 15w x 20 is what I ment

a custom version could be made for higher watts

if you have a electronic ballast , it could work to power the 4' tubes , but the wsb could also power the tube without a ballast by modifling it to but out the higher volts

I will be testing that"

This sounds enteresting. Another question then, since it's hard to push DC compared to AC, but we are talking low amps/watts also how heavy of wire would something like this need for running several or many 4' light tubes the best way? If all the lights are wired on one circuit at maybe 600watts would the standard house wire AC lines be usable or need rewired? At 120Vdc that would only be 5amps and about 6 amps at 96Vdc.

Example of what I mean, take the standard small retail store with many of those 4' and 8' fixtures. Or restarunts too. Would it be worth while for just CFL lighting to run all those fixtures off a few of these and batteries direct compared to using inverters?

I am thinking perhaps your board is supposed to use less DC directly than running DC though an inverter and making AC for the same job. Is that also correct?
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by ibedonc on Thu Feb 17, 2005 at 05:21:13 PM MST

theoretically ac [rms] and dc are the same , for #10 wire you loose .04volts per amp

#12 would be a little more

so you would just turn up the volts

I have run them @ 200v dc

direct would be better then a inverter , less lost

[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by nothing to lose on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 10:00:20 AM MST

These boards may be something pretty great then.
Some of my thoughts, besides residentional or remote cabins.

Many of the retail stores (smaller stuff) I been around have the lights on breakers seperate from anything else, so they can be shut off at night and on in the day without effecting anything else in the store of course. So if half of those were wired to one of these boards and some batteries and either a windgenny or a few solar pannels, not alot of work or expense in changing out wiring and such? Pretty much just pull existing wires from the grids breaker and connect to this board and the power supply (battery bank)?
Course you still want breakers and other stuff on the lights, but that's the basics of it? If so, makes changeing cheap and easy.

I know alot of places that each row of lights are on a seperate breaker. That would meen they could easily run row 1,3,5 off the grid and rows 2,4,6 off one of these. Never have to worry about total power and lights loss. For example a few days ago the entire city was without power for hours, so stores without back up had no normal lights at all. As matter of fact I just walked into the title office to register my trailer as the power went off, he had to fill out the paper in the dark, luckily the computers were on backups :)

Also I am thinking here all those great well light signs up on those giant posts, like BurgerKing, Wendies, Mc Crappy, gas stations etc.... Nearly all of those are CFL lit.
Get those on batteries directly without inverters and major power savings nationwide!! All those signs are tall enough to be good wind gennie towers and also large enough to mount some solar on top of also. How hard would it be to set up a light sensor on the board to turn on at a certain low light level and off durring bright light, like weather conditons? Probably fairly easy? Just tap the power feed line from the batteries?
Businesses replace those signs all the time for no reason. A total self powered package should be easy to sell. Inside most of those larger signs is just a big empty space and Light tubes basically. Plenty of room for Sealed lead acid batteries or others. And just running CFL lights all night (and several days backup) should not require any major sized banks really. Also I would think that wind loads on those signs would be far worse than the wieght of a few batteries pushing downwards.

Course for the signs everything could be mounted ground level and ran on wires same as from grid probably, but I am thinking self contained inside the sign itself adds lots of savings, 100' sign would NOT need 100' power line running up it :)
Also they could be anywhere the grid is not, like billboards. Eliminating the power inverter and tons of wire provides tons of savings to pay for the other parts like solar pannels. Also makes everything more reliable.

As for me, I might like one or more for the house myself.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by ibedonc on Fri Feb 18, 2005 at 04:34:35 PM MST

keep a check on www.redevices.com , testing is going well with TomW

[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by ghurd on Mon Feb 21, 2005 at 12:33:01 PM MST

Wally-World, McCrap, etc. They just don't want to spend the money to save the money.

They proved it themselves. A PV (or wind genny?) to charge the batteries, with a switching regulator type grid charger for backup, would save a lot of power and long term cost. They did not do it. (except BP that I know of, right after they bought a PV manufacturer... go figure)

Rants???

G-

[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by nothing to lose on Wed Feb 23, 2005 at 12:22:33 AM MST

"They just don't want to spend the money to save the money."

Most likely to many tax breaks to just waist it!

Kinda like the garbage they try to teach in every business class about 3 out of 5 businesses fail in the first 5 years. All crap!

2 of those 3 businesses that failed were a complete and total success!! They were intended to be tax breaks, intended to fail from the start, and the fact they failed makes them a really big success! Even I have done that! I even got paid a few times to help others do it.

Think about it :)
If you need a tax deduction (writeoff) and want to vacation in a windy area like the Coast or Hawaii, start a windgennie business :)
Take a vacation to China to look for Neos and Japan to find controllers :)

IRS says you have to make a profit 3 out of 5 years as I recall. Ok you claim the first year as a startup and it's exempt from that, 3 years of losses for deductions, go out of business in the 5th year. That's actaully 4 years of losses you can claim on the 3 out of 5 rule.
In the meantime all those coastal vactions (err, business trips) to sell windmills are legitamate tax deductions. When you close that business go into solar, they have sun there too don't they. And yes I am serious about China and Japan too, as long as it can be shown to be for business in some way. Freinds have done it, I never needed the deductions to do it. (or had gthe money either)

Figure you also got about 35cents a mile deductions for driving around town and make everything you can a business trip also. Going to Wally world, buy something for the gennies a screw or a tool or something you need, business trip! Grab your other stuff since your already there on business :)
Wanna take the kids to an amusement park 200 miles away, try to sell the park a windmill, business trip for 400 mile round trip. About $140 mileage deduction right there to help pay for expensive tickets. Just don't get to carried away with it, make it look real!

I set people up for a few of these in the past, but have not kept up with any recent changes in tax laws. I am maybe 5-8 yrs behind any changes, maybe more.

One person I remember very well made about $2,000 real profits, spendable money, and took about $10,000 in LEGAL tax deductions, making a total loss of about $8,000 to offset his other income. He did exactly what was intended and closed the business when he could no longer claim the losses, just opened another the next year for the same purpose.

I think that's why wally-world builds a brand new store and moves to the end of town, then about 3 years latter builds a brand new building acrossed the road and moves to it!! I know about 6 cities where they did that in the last 10 years or so. Some that they moved out of are now Sams clubs, some are just empty. Most likely all tax breaks in some way!

Since I like to drive so much and like west and southwest Texas I have been thinking about importing Mexican paintings and potery maybe some leather. Don't know the market now, but back in the late 70's it was great, and as things have a cycle it should be good now and picking up soon too, if the prices are still fairly low to buy it. That would make all my Texas, New Mexico, Arizona travels a deduction this year. That's alot of mileage!!
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: 90vdc for CFL ?? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by pyrocasto on Tue Feb 15, 2005 at 01:44:50 PM MST

Yes, they will run on DC I thought. I believe their circuit just boost the dc power, now inverting it to ac.

90vdc for CFL ?? | 13 comments (13 topical)

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