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Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion battery
By JeroenH, Section Storage Posted on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 05:54:51 PM MST
Toshiba has today announced a new lithium ion battery which can recharge 80% of the battery's energy capacity in just one minute

Toshiba has today announced a new lithium ion battery, which, it claims, can recharge 80% of the battery's energy capacity in just one minute, 60 times faster than the other lithium ion cells. It takes an unspecified 'few' more minutes for a complete recharge. The battery has a long life cycle, losing only 1% of its capacity after 1,000 cycles of discharging and recharging. Due to be launched next year, it will initially be used to power hybrid electric vehicles but could be used for smaller devices in future, such as mobile phones and digital cameras.
For the full press-release:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/05032903tosh1minbatt.asp
If it's true (big IF if you ask me) it would be a big step forward for electric vehicles.
But it would require some serious power. The Li-ion battery in my digital camera is 1500 mAh / 7,2V. That's 10,8 Wh. 90% of that is 9,72 Wh. Filling that up in 1 minute would need nearly 600 Watts flowing into the battery. At 7,2V that's a stunning 81 Amps. They would need to seriously redesign the conncetors for that.
Electric cars present an even bigger problem: say you carry 30kWh of battery power with you. To fill 90% of that up in 1 minute you'd need 1,6 MW of power. Now that's a big-size PV-installation. Imagine a 'gas'-station with 4 of 6 fill-up point operating simultaneously.

Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion battery | 14 comments (14 topical)

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by wgatenson04 on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 11:36:29 AM MST

Quite amazing if it is true. Imagine the connectors you would need for charging up a car like that. 1.6MW @ 220V = 7272 Amps! Still, I would like to get my hands on a couple of thoes.

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by richhagen on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 02:22:45 PM MST

You would probably require a second battery bank, or a really heavy duty grid connection to dump that kind of power that quickly. Rich
'A Joule saved is a Joule made'
[ Parent ]

Fast-charging LI-ION Batteries (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by PCHedglin on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 12:08:47 PM MST

"CAN RECHARGE 80%"

I think the important thing to remember here is that the life
of most batteries is affected by how low you drain them, how
often, and how hard to charge them. There was another link to
a www.newscientist.com article posted recently. The name of
the article was "Charge a battery in just six minutes."

This newer technology should lend itself nicely to high power
applications like electric cars, power tools, battery backups,
etc. The article also mentions that the number of charging
cycles of typical LI-ION batteries is around 400, but with the
new technology that number has been estimated at as many as
20,000 cycles! Even if reality only puts this at 1/4 of this
estimate with minimal capacity loss over time, this would be a
huge improvement! This would be 10+ years of charging/discharging
the batteries every day, if we stick with a conservative 5,000!

Also, I believe that charging most batteries to 80% capacity is
the fastest part of the cycle, and the remaining 20% is where you
need a longer, more gradual charge. My battery charger that
switches to trickle charge comes to mind here.

However, if these batteries are as "TUFF" as they are claiming,
then perhaps charging to 80% capacity would be sufficient for
most applications. For example, I could see waiting 5-10 minutes
get my batteries to 80% for example at a "FILLING" station, but
wouldn't want to wait around for maybe 2-3 or more times that just
to get them to 100%. However, if I could plug it in at a Park &
Ride or a station at a large retailer while I shop, then this
wouldn't be that big of an issue.

Just my thoughts on this issue!

Patrick

Re: Fast-charging LI-ION Batteries (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 03:52:21 PM MST

IMHO the important part about that charging rate is not how fast you can fill it at a filling station (although that's good, too).

The BIG thing is that it's fast enough to use for regenerative braking. (No need for supercapacitors.)

Also: The high charging rate implies that it also has very little loss. (Otherwise it would slag down.) Combine this with electric motor/generators for your transmission (which are ALSO extremely efficient) and you can make stop-and-go driving consume almost as little energy as highway driving. That's a BIG DEAL.

Accellerating a car to speed (using enough energy to heat a house for half an hour in the dead of a northern winter) and then dumping all that energy in the brakes, over and over, burns a LOT of fuel. You can cruise a gas-guzzler at higway speeds on 14 KW, but getting it off the dime takes twenty times that - about a fifth of a MEGAwatt. (Reduce the first number for smaller, more streamlined cars, the second for lighter ones.) Stop-and-go driving means you're in that big number much of the time. If you could recover that energy on stop and reuse it to restart, you'd be in the smaller number all the time.

Make a massive sedan that you can recharge from a two-hour round-trip commute with less than 700 watts for the rest of the day, or a compact you can recharge on far less, means you can actually start thinking about running it on renewable power - even home-generated power - rather than fossil fuels.

= = = = =

By the way: Don't be surprised by the astronomical level of power that would be involved in recharging a car in a time similar to filling a gas tank. Think about how much heat you'd produce if you burned the gas as fast as it came out of the pump (maybe 12 galons per minute) at 124,000 BTU/galon. You're talking over twenty-six MEGAWATTS of heat.

[ Parent ]

Re: Fast-charging LI-ION Batteries (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by finnsawyer on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 09:18:04 AM MST

Good points. Even if it takes ten minutes or so to fully charge the power pack, it's workable. You stop at a rest stop or "energy" station, swipe your plastic, go do your business, and come back to a fully charged vehicle. (You KNOW you're going to have to pay for the energy).
GeoM
[ Parent ]

This might not need a special station, either. (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 10:16:24 AM MST

This might not need a special "electric gas station". Without fancy tankage for hazardous chemicals - just a heavy-duty power feed - you don't need a special facility.

I can imagine a row of charger connections at the parking lots of many stores (sort of like the handfull already located at a few chains like Costco for the current crop of electric commuter vehicles). Charge the car while shopping, doing your laundry, watching a movie, or what-have-you.

If you're already doing something that will take you half an hour or more you can drop the charge rate, too. B-)

[ Parent ]

Re: This might not need a special station, either. (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by finnsawyer on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 08:20:23 AM MST

They don't make any projections about the cost of these batteries. That's the real bottom line. If they're real expensive they might only be justified for hybrid vehicles not electrics.
GeoM
[ Parent ]

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by wgatenson04 on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 03:24:42 PM MST

If you can charge the battery in 1 minute, then could you drain it that fast also? Affording higher output ranges with a smaller battery would be very usefull to a car as far as peak HP goes.

I want one for my house battery bank. (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 04:01:44 PM MST

1% capacity loss after a thousand cycles?
Charging (and discharging) rates suitable for massive loads and storing energy from hurricaine-level winds?
Energy density of a hand grenade (almost that of a tank of gas)?
Automotive-manufacturing economy-of-scale?

The HELL with lead-acids! I want one for my homepower setup!

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by jomoco on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:32:40 PM MST

What will those dirty rotten intellectual property holders come up wth next,..... sustainable clean energy? Could be!

jomoco

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by pyrocasto on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 07:40:25 PM MST

If these work good then a generator exercise bike would be good. Hop on and pump hard for 2 minutes, and have mostly charged batteries.

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by healerenergy on Tue Mar 29, 2005 at 09:26:00 PM MST

Like some one said. If this is true I will be able to put one of these http://www.lynxmotiontechnology.com/e813.htm on a transaxle and in a car or van. I realy want to get away from gasoline.
Energy comes from many Sources the trick is knowing how to tap into it.

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by nanotech on Wed Mar 30, 2005 at 01:31:14 PM MST

Good Lord!!

That motor is the same diameter, half the length, and puts out the same power as a Mazda rotary twin turbo engine!! :O

I WANT ONE OF THOSE!!!!
__________________________________________
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru!
[ Parent ]

Re: Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion bat (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by nothing to lose on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 12:40:06 AM MST

Gee, lets all plug in at the same time on a hot summer day and see what we can shut down this week :)

Summer is comming, airconditioning will be getting turned on, I know I can expect 2 or 3 power outages before long for about 2 hours each over several days. Then they get smart and add a little more juice, but not till AFTER several outages occure!

Those batteries and the posibilities sound great, but how many years will it take to get the power grids set up to produce the power to keep them charged? Hmmm, I wonder if California is ready for this? Propsition 99, it is known to the state of CA that you will miss alot of work if you rely on the grid and state government to supply your drivng needs :)
I can see those stickers being applied to new cars throughout the country allready!
Do they charge well durring brownouts?

Luckily I don't have to worry about all the BIG power outages everyone else has been having the last few years here and there, I just have to worry about racoons!

Yes, supposedly OUR last outage was caused by a Racoon getting into something at a power station! Now ain't that High Tech!

By the time these are available and the price gets low enough for them to be useable by average people I am sure we will be building alot of RE system even at home that can recharge them. I wonder how the government will get thiers fingers into this?
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.

Toshiba launches fast-charging lithium ion battery | 14 comments (14 topical)

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