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Ceiling fan motor.
By Jerry, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 04:01:07 AM MST
I picked up the big one today.

It was still at the scrap metal place. $5 so worth a shot.
Here are the specs.
120 vac, 2.3 amps, 28 coils, 11.4 ohms dc, outside stator measures 11.5", rotor measures 9", rotor and lamination 1" thick, rpm 225.
I pluged it in. It works good, very slow. Many thought of what to do with it now?
I was thinking if it would act like other ac induction motor when spun 10% above the rated rpm with caps accross the ac wirees will this one make power. AC induction generater? Would be easy to spin this with a blade in the wind. Then use a transformer to reduce the voltage and increase the amps?
Or machine the armature down and add magnets? This is difreant than the normal small ceiling fan motors. The small one have there stator in the center. This one is like
a normal motor.
24 coils of very small wire so could rewire it with bigger wire or perelell the stock small wire coils?
How could I arange magnets so this could be 3 phase? I'll play with the stock wires first the maybe make changes later?

JK TAS Jerry

Ceiling fan motor. | 21 comments (21 topical)

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by rotornuts on Wed Mar 02, 2005 at 10:21:58 PM MST

I'll be watching! This one looks like fun jerry.

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by drdongle on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 05:33:39 AM MST

Jerry what "make" is that unit? looks like it has potentual
Carpe Vigor, Dr.D

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by DanB on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 05:58:27 AM MST

Hi Jerry - yes, that should be fun...
I have one exactly like it, never got around to playing with it though. Nice large diameter, lots of room for magnets and wire there, I expect you could do something good with it!

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Warrior on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:18:00 AM MST

Jerry, that looks like a nice motor. I tried to run one as a capacitor self excited induction generator, but had no luck, regardless of capacitance or rpm.
I did ocasionally see voltage peaks when flashing the field but the motor would not self excite.

Not sure what will happen with your big fan...

Good Luck,

Diego
Warrior__ "Why can't Murphy's Law be used to my advantage??"
[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by ghurd on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:08:09 AM MST

What rotates?
It kind of looks like the brown part in the center rotates, and the outer coils are stationary?
This is different and a lot bigger than any I had, all with the fixed coils in the center, and the outer areas rotating.
G-
Ghurd.info

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Warrior on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:10:52 AM MST

Jerry, that looks like a nice motor. I tried to run one as a capacitor self excited induction generator, but had no luck, regardless of capacitance or rpm.

I did ocasionally see voltage peaks when flashing the field but the motor would not self excite.

Not sure what will happen with your big fan...

Good Luck,

Diego
Warrior__ "Why can't Murphy's Law be used to my advantage??"

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Jerry on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 09:09:18 AM MST

Thanks for all the input guys. I think I'll just go strait to to the magnets.

I'm thinking small ceramics for now. Cause I have a bunch. Also thinking of building another rotor for NEOs. Yes the coils on the outside are stationary.

This unit should make high voltage at low rpm. I've done a test with a 120 volt 6 pole conversion. It makes high voltage. Enough to operate a computer power supply.

Neat thing about the puter suplly is it very regulated and will operate from 80 to 240 volts at just a couple amps in. This might make a low amperage regulated 12 voltage source for small needs?

I'm going to cut the ceramics so they will sit at a scewed angle.

Hey Dan you should try a few things on yours and we can compair notes?

The brand is Montgomery Ward. The maker is Evergo Industrial Enterprise LTD of Hong Kong. Model E-8 42228.

This unit gives me ideas for building something simular from scratch.

Time to get busy and see what this thing can do?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Flux on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 10:27:54 AM MST

Jerry
I think you are right to go straight for magnets, I suspected it wouldn't excite as an induction generator and Diego has confirmed this.

It does not lend itself to 3 phase but you could do it as 14 pole 2 phase.

Flux

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by wooferhound on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 04:52:20 PM MST

> I'm going to cut the ceramics so they will sit at a scewed angle.

It looks like the coils are squewed already . . .

)}=- W o o f -={(

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by monte350c on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 06:52:36 PM MST

Hi Jerry,

This will be interesting!

It will be tough to do three phase though with the 28 slots. If it were 29 instead it would be easy.

It sort of reminds me of one of those F & P motors. A lot of the comments about F & P motors might apply?

By the way I did up the simulation for your 2 pole machine over here: http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/2/27/171729/276

Neat stuff!

Ted.

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by ghurd on Thu Mar 03, 2005 at 07:05:16 PM MST

How much would it really screw up the works being off that much for a 3 phase machine?
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by monte350c on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 12:04:34 AM MST

Oops! I should have said if it were 27 instead it would be easy. 29 would be another problem!

Ted.

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by olvvlo on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 03:31:15 AM MST

Hi Jerry
very excited to see this post. I remember a long time ago taking a fan apart like this and thinking wow a lots of potential here. I was at the time not thinking in terms of generators.
I have recently nevertheless been working on very low RPM generators'(a very challenging area) using large numbers of magnets and coils to produce charging voltages.
Seeing your post has made me want to scurry down to the scrapyard in search of another fan.
I wonder why you want to convert to three-phase, as with so many coils the output will be very smooth anyway. Converting to three-phase will do nothing to make it smoother and you will lose the potential it has to generate a charging voltage at such a low RPM!

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Jerry on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 10:01:54 AM MST

Hi Olvvlo.

Your right about the 3 phase. Most of my (95%) conversions have been single phase or actuly 2 phase. This is the result of including start windings as well as run windings.

I'll take it apart and check on the squewing? I have the 1 7/8" by 7/8" by 3/8" ceramics. I'll cut the lingth to match the the staotor thickness. Squewing of the magnets woul be easy at this point. I'd just cut them at an angle.

I'd thought of pulse charging with caps with this unit also. First thing though is to put the magnets in and go from there.

I was very suprized to see this much intrest in this motor? Yes it doies look like the F&P inside out.

I think there is much merrit with large diameter, laminated stators, many poles and magnets.

with these arangement its easy to do sires, perelell or combination of both to get the voltage, amperage or cutin speed you want.

I'm not afraid of small wire this way. Many coils of small wire in perelell can do the same work as large wire coils in sires. Same effect when using a large # of small diodes and small doides are cheap.

Theres just no end. It seems the more you expiriment the more posabilitys open up.

I know now when I see things of a mechanical nature I think about how can this be turned into a wind generator? Or something related to RE?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by mrfanman2u on Sun Jun 19, 2005 at 11:37:24 PM MST

well, first of all let me say this. You ruined a ceiling fan valued at close to $1,000 but other than THAT i like your idea, lol. We collectors call it a "evergo banana fan" very rare fan indeed only about 500 or so known for the time being.

I know this is wierd, but i actually collect ceiling fans as a hobby, i have close to 80 of them including two identical ones to the one you have jerry. i also have several of those stators you speak of( the 28 pole)

I do foresee a small problem that i do not know if you have addressed yet. THis is a shaded pole motor. To get the efficency correct to try to run it on two phase( or whatever you're doing with it) the shading coils must be removed. the shading coils' purpose is to give the motor the kick to start and run in one direction.

Here is a picture of one of my fans.

and p.s. these fans( the evergo version are very rare) however, the Hunter version of the fan ( the 3 speed reversible model) is very common, and you can ususally pick them up fairly cheaply.

Also, if you still have the blades (paddles) i would be interested in them, as well as in the old housing to it.

visit our website www.vintageceilingfans.com

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by PHinker on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 10:16:21 AM MST

Jerry,

When I bought my first house, I found one of these fans at a garage sale for $10. I installed it and was very happy with it since the fan ran absolutely silently on all speeds. Since then I've went through many ceiling fans and haven't found many which run as quietly on all speeds. I'm interested to hear how you make out with it.

Paul

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Jerry on Fri Mar 04, 2005 at 08:18:39 PM MST

I recently did a post on a light dimmer as a motor speed control. This big ceiling fan has what apears to be the exact control part for part.

I pulled it apart today and its not squewed. The slots are straight up and down.

The laminations are 3/4" tall. The pole width between slots is exactly 7/8". The same as my magnets.

It dosn't look like the original rotor will work for these magent. Its to thin. After machining for the magnets there wouldn't be any rotor left. I will build a new rotor out of solid steel. I will squew the magnets. I'm not sure at what angle I should cut the magnets however? How much of the neiborhing slots they should cover?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by christopher on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 12:25:10 PM MST

Hi Jerry! Keep us posted. I have two very similar fans made by Hunter, except the field poles are split and it has a second set of twenty eight coils behind the first. I also found that the windings all are joined midway. They had all the connectors insulated and stuffed into a slot. I had given up on these for the same reason that you have found. If I would have cut down the armatuer even for 1/4" mags I would only have had a 1/32" left and dont have a lathe and probably too expensive to have one machine. I was thinking of rewinding with ten or twelve winds of heavy wire.
Christopher

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by Jerry on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 09:26:03 PM MST

Your sounds like the arangement they use on the small motorts?

The same scrap yard has a stack of steel disc. Round but ruff cut. They lookt to be about 9" dia. .25" thick.

I'll stop by moday and pick up a few. I can true them up on the lathe.

I'll bolt 3 together and maichine them to take the original bearings. These bearing spin so free I can just blow on the rotor and it starts to turn.

I'll get enough discs so I can make a rotor with ceramics and one with some of EDs 1"X1/2"X1/8" NEOs.

I'll try the small stock wire first and then maybe rewind witrh the big stuff also if I can't make something usfull with the small wire?

Next trick will be how to atach blades to this thing? OH and some type yaw bearing?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by Jerry on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 09:43:04 PM MST

Picked up the discs today. They are the exact size needed. Now I have to built the armature or rotor. This will involve a shaft, hubs for the discs, the discs, shaft colers to keep stator line up with the magnets and help retain the bearings and bearing end caps. Also have to figurre out how much squew angel on the magnets?

Then testing and wireing desisions?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Ceiling fan motor. (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by ghurd on Mon Mar 07, 2005 at 10:17:01 PM MST

It might not need much skewing? The stator gaps look small.

Any idea why the coils are crooked?

G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Ceiling fan motor. | 21 comments (21 topical)

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