Go to Otherpower.com Home Page Go to Forcefield Shopping Cart Go to Wondermagnet.com Home Page
Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Reviews - Diaries - Our Products
homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil?


By dinges, Section Wind
Posted on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 04:45:17 PM MST
plus some other thoughts

G'day,

I'm currently building my first generator (abt. 1m diameter; dual rotor, 3phase, 12 *2 magnets; 9 coils each 75 windings) but have a question: I've made all the coils, but noticed somewhere that the coils should have a hole inside big enough for the magnet to fit in. Why?

The holes in my coils are a bit smaller (plus a bit 'triangular', smaller at the center of stator). What consequences will this have on output? Would it be necessary to make new coils? (lots of work, but the stator hasn't yet been cast so it's possible to do).

Hope anyone can help here.

Also, when I rub a magnet 'really quickly' past one of those coils (say, 4-5 times per second), I measure about .1V AC out; this seems very little, but perhaps other people have experience in testing coils this way.

Secondly, I haven't finished my first one (have just started) but I'm already feeling the urge to build bigger ones; have to restrain myself here, first finish the small one and learn from it.... This is definitely FUN!

I'm getting other ideas too... Like that hometrainer bike (the one that doesn't get used :-) ), why waste the power, instead use it to generate electricity... I'm starting to eye it every now and then; the wheel goes out very easily, and there's room for a 45 cm rotor (MORE POWER, IGOR!). Which makes me wonder: how much power can a human being generate (for short and/or longer periods); have read somewhere that humans can deliver 1HP (750W) for short periods, but how about for a longer, sustained period? I think that if I exchange the wheel for a generator, the bike may actually see some use. Which makes me wonder: what do they do with all the energy produced in sport gyms? And, if people knew that 'their' energy would be actually used (not dissipated as heat) to generate electricity, would they still pay for the privilege, or demand to be paid?

Grtz,

Peter
The Netherlands.

homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil? | 7 comments (7 topical)

Re: homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by K3CZ on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 12:44:53 PM MST

Just remember - the object of the design is to get all the wires in one side of a coil over and past the magnet face(s) before the other side of the coil starts to pass that face.  Otherwise, cancellation will result and output lowered from the maximum possible.  Tapered coils and magnets are also subject to this rule, but because of the differing formfactor, it is possible to achieve more output in less space.
                        Good luck!         Van    K3CZ



What the oscilloscope says about hole size... (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by troy on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 04:30:56 PM MST

This link will give you lots of real experimental evidence why you want the hole in the coil to be about the same as the magnet size:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/5/22/15015/1261

It is in complete agreement with the first response as well.

Best regards,

troy



Re: What the oscilloscope says about hole size... (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by kitno455 on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 04:41:50 PM MST

of course, that thread used a coil a very few turns, right? i wonder how the outer wraps of the wire (which will be quite a bit bigger will affect the output. should the 'average' loop size be the same as the mag?

allan

[ Parent ]



Re: What the oscilloscope says about hole size... (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by troy on Mon Apr 18, 2005 at 05:15:31 PM MST

A larger coil (with many turns) will "hide" the cancellation of a too small hole because of all the other wire that is in the larger part of the coil.  But that's the point really, if the hole gets too small, the output doesn't just go flat, it actually goes down from cancellation. Those test coils were specifically wound to answer the question of how small you can go on hole size before losses occur.

Can you pack more copper in there and cheat on the hole size a bit? Sure you can.  But there's no use at all in winding coils without holes.  The smaller the hole (compared to the magnet) the more cancellation you get.  And the extra wire to make the hole smaller definitely adds resistance without adding much to output.  So pick some happy medium and live with the compromise.

Best regards,

troy

[ Parent ]



Re: homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Chagrin on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 08:53:00 AM MST

In my experience, the consequence of too small a hole will be a less sinusoidal waveform in the current. It generates a "spikier" form of AC.



Re: homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Peter V on Tue Apr 19, 2005 at 11:59:52 PM MST

Now I'm curious what effect this non-sinusoidal wave will have on the rectified output?  Will it have a better power factor?

[ Parent ]


Re: homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by dinges on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:50:46 AM MST

Thanks everyone for the response!

One link led to another, so now I've got a lot more info to be studied!

I'm afraid my current stator will suffer from cancellation, due to the hole inside being too small. However, I was expecting, even before I began construction of the stator, that I'd need to build another one (if only because of number of winding/coil).

So, live and learn.

That's why I wanted to build a small generator, before starting with the bigger & more expensive stuff.

Peter,
The Netherlands.

[ Parent ]



homebuilt generator: magnet to fit inside coil? | 7 comments (7 topical)
Display: Sort:
Menu
· create account
· How to use the board
· FAQs
· search the board
· Google search the board

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Total Views
  177 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

Related Links
· magnet
· Also by dinges

Powered by Scoop
You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest © 2009 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!