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moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale


By jacquesm, Section Rants & Opinion
Posted on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 02:18:11 AM MST
moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale

I know that it's kind of cynical, but after now 5 years in total and three years of waiting for a permanent resident status my wife and I have finally given up on waiting for the Canadian government to make up their minds. Our son will be 12 next year, which is the last chance he will have to connect to high school in Europe (which in many countries there begins at age 12), so we have decided to move back there while we still have time to bring his education up to European standards for that age.


This is quite a heavy decision, we've got our lives invested in Canada and it will take a lot of doing to move us, our dogs and a small portion of our posessions back to Europe.


One mans misery is another mans good luck though, and I have for sale a whole pile of RE related stuff, tools and so on, you probably all know from the various pictures in my diary what I've got laying around here.


I have 4-8 weeks of getting all this done, I won't be in a position to drop stuff off (though I may go and visit Tom, RonB and the Dans with any leftovers if there is time to do that), but if you're interested in any of the following (maybe this should go under classifieds, but the 'Canadian bit' is more of a rant then please let me know and make an offer, there is no way I can take this stuff with me. I'm on St. Josephs Island, Canada, so most people nearby in Michigan or thereabouts or in Ontario would probably be best positioned to take advantage of this.


Another option would be to use Ebay, but I'm not too hot on that, have used it once and didn't like it (I know some of you make a living there, it's just preference).


I have for sale:


(prices in Canadian dollars)


Meuser lathe (7' between centers and 22" swing with the gap bed removed)+tooling+accessories+toolcart $5000, Excello turret milling machine with lots of tooling, clamping kit, vice and indexer $5000, ford 9n 1942 tractor in extremely good state with a backblade $3500, John Deere 310 backhoe pretty rough but it works $7500 and a Kubota 4950 DT 55HP four wheel drive tractor $10,000, a ton of RE related gear, including two motor conversions (one 'Zubbly' machine I bought for $1500 and other than a few tests I didn't get around to do much more to it) and the 'gray' machine from the diaries. South Bend small precision lathe with lots of tooling $1500. A small fortune in hand tools and various smaller items (you probably would have to be here to take a look at what we have). A 240 V 3/4" capable thermal dynamics plasma cutter $3500, a plama/woodworking CNC table (without software, you'd have to
hook up a pc and such to the stepper drivers to make it work, that part does
not go with it because it is very experimental in nature) $3000 (the drivetrain
alone is worth a multiple of that), this machine will need some work but it
is an absolutely amazing tool to have and use, again see my diary for pictures.


Either this stuff is brand new or old and restored to good state and in perfect
working condition.


Also, but that's another story altogether I have for sale a 98 acre farm with a 2400 sq ft house with attached 2400 sq feet garage & workshop, completely off the grid. Reasonable offers will be considered.


If anybody is seriously interested let me know and we will see if we can meet up and make some deal, also if you are seriously interested in any of this stuff then I'll shoot detailed pictures but if you are wondering what any of the above stuff is then you probably should not buy it :)


I can not tell you guys how much it pains me to have to shut down this project, but there really is not a whole lot of choice for us, we can not continue to live in uncertainty for ever.


All the rules have changed and it has caused us to fall in between so many cracks that besides all kinds of delays the demands that are made of us have gotten so extreme (police clearances from countries where we haven't lived for years, paperwork dating back to '96 and stuff like that) that I can not see how this will end in a good way, in spite of local and provincial officials doing everything they can to make it work. The Federal government has the final say in all this and they seem to have been out to lunch the last 3 years. Which is kind of ironic because at the very same time they are scouting in Europe to find companies that are willing to move here at their expense in order to create jobs (which we were already doing quite a bit, employing between 5 and 10 people depending on the time of year).


This farm, the people around us and the projects that we were doing are a lifes dream come true, and unfortunately as all dreams do they come to an end.


We are still researching a remote possibility of moving to the US with the
whole kaboodle, but it looks like the chances of doing that in an orderly fashion are very slim indeed, so for now I have resigned myself to shutting things down.


I'm still planning one farewell trip to The Dans, RonB and Tomw and whoever else is on that route.

moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale | 67 comments (67 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by walsdos on Tue May 31st, 2005 at 09:06:22 PM MST
(User Info)

Hello Jaques,
Really sorry to hear of your impending departure, a sad loss for the country.It seems the bureaucrats can't see a good thing when it hits them in the face.
  Have you considered having your son move in with relatives in E.U. to finish his schooling? Itis something we discussed insofar as post secondary ed was concerned for our kids but the cost was too much for us and Guelph seems like a good alternative at a little less money. It is,I know a personal choice and had friends return to England so they could be with their duaghters while at uni..
Anyhow,good luck and hope everything works out for the best.



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Tue May 31st, 2005 at 10:18:53 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

Having a kid is a pretty serious decision and we are pretty strong when it comes to doing stuff, all of us or none of us, he goes where we go. Same with the dogs, we're all family here.


We have looked at ways to get around all this but I don't really see how we can get to have our cake and eat it too, short of doing things that are illegal and I don't swing that way. It either happens above board and by the rules or not at all. I can't see myself taking responsibility for cutting off the possibility for the little guy to finish his schooling in a good way and to be with his family (after all he did not ask to be brought in to this world) without us sacrificing our project here. That's a strain on all of us anyway (any kind of moving is, and an international move doubly so), but at least we are no longer being toyed with, which is really what it starts to feel like.


the government here has the gall to suggest that we then should have waited outside of Canada, but the truth of the matter is that we long ago (1999) had a business interest in Canada, and that we only decided to move here when the center of gravity of our lives had shifted here. At that time I was on a working permit for two years, but that does not count at all towards your status here. At the same time they have an incentive program to lure succesful European entrepreneurs here with cash prizes, tax incentives and relocating bonuses. It's just crazy.  


So, it's ok to employ tons of people and pay your taxes but after 5 years of that you do not have any rights, your application gets delayed more and more without any valid and visible reason other than arbitrary rule changes, and some smartass border guard felt that it was a must to point out to me that he did not have to let me enter Canada at all because in my work permit it states that I do not have a'right to re-entry'. It's my life at the other side of that desk, excuse me ?


The amount of bs that we have put up with over the years would fill books, and maybe one day I'll sit down to write that book, it would make for interesting reading.


We're probably strange characters in that we left behind country, family and friends in order to try to build up a new life here, but that part of it seemed to go pretty easy. It's the bureaucracy that I just can't stomach, and in that respect this is one of the worst places in the world that I have had any experience with so far, contrary to Canada's public image abroad.


We offset the Canadian trade imbalance by a tidy sum each year and I think we have a very positve influence on our environment here but it seems that those criteria do not count at all.


And that counts in all kinds of fields, for instance if you want health insurance you have to be a resident first, if you want to run a business you have to be a resident (or you will not get any banking short of a checking account) and so on.


We've been third rate citizens for the last 5 years now (1st rate: born & bred Canadians, 2nd rate: landed immigrants, 3rd rate people like us).


Also they would impose a whole pile of conditions on us that would imply that we could still lose the whole deal if at some point in time they decide that we have not complied with any of the 'rules', subject to change without notice.


www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Tue May 31st, 2005 at 11:06:00 PM MST
(User Info)

Well I am very sad to hear this, and wish you the best of luck. I am sure we will not be losing you here at the board though, right?
Once you are settled into your new home will you be engaging into the same interests and works there as you do now. Still participating here through the world wide web and such??

 I will be making my first visit to Canada myself (US citizen) and am planning to buy land at some point myself. Preferably very rural northen area though. I wonder if I also will at some point have the same type problems? Though I will not have children to worry about at that time, just myself. Even if I buy and build, I would not be moving permant for 3-4years when my daughter is 18 or so and starts her own adult life or collage...

Best of luck to you, I wish you well in both sales and the move, new life etc...

You have many things I would be interested in, unfortunately the timming is bad for me, no money and no land to move things to, or I would take a look myself.
I don't have the time to sell off cars to raise the money either being your time frame and my planned trip for the summer conflict or I would try to help us both out here.

One side note, don't know if it's any good though. If you will want need these items at your new home, have you looked into shipping them over? I never did anything like that, but a freind that dealt in very expensive cars years ago used to ship containers to various countries. The shipping he said he paid was not nearly as bad as I had expected, though not really cheap either. Course if you run into duties/import fees etc.. it could kill the deal also. He was shipping large antique and exotic cars, several tons each. Back about 8-10yrs ago.

Depending on costs of equipment there, perhaps shipping would be better than selling here and buying more again over there? I geuss the sales price now and purchase price later and currancy exchange all need to be considered as well. Perhaps selling now and re-buying later could end as a somewhat profitable deal as well for some items??

Just trying to help a bit, often some things get over looked as posibilities, and I am sure this is a stressfull time that could add to overlooking some options.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by pyrocasto (pyrocasto at hotmail dot com) on Tue May 31st, 2005 at 11:08:01 PM MST
(User Info)

I'm very sorry to see you having to go, but I guess you'll make the best of it. I hope we'll see you on here, when you get to the other side.

As for buying, what other RE stuff do you have. I have lots of "needs"(wants) for smaller items, to help me out with bigger items. :-)

Best of luck,



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 06:48:15 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

most of the RE physical stuff is tied pretty strongly to the farm, if it sells 'on grid' (in other words if the new owners do not wish to have the RE system and will reconnect to the grid) then I'll have an enormous amount of RE stuff for sale, until then it's mostly tools and the two conversion machines.


To answer the question about moving the tools, I've looked at that in detail and there are three costs associated with that, moving costs, conversion costs and import duties. By the time you've done all that you can buy the stuff again on the other side.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#38)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 08:26:44 PM MST
(User Info)

I had not thought of conversion costs, you mean like all the motors are wired for the wrong currant?

Course if you took your own RE grid with you :)

Anyway was a tought, Some people moved here from OZ I think it was, dumped all their stuff before leaving and never thought to see what container costs were.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#49)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 08:06:03 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

Europe is 380/50 or 240/50, The 240 circuits are limited to about 16 Amps in
most setups that I have seen, the 380 or 600 volt stuff (higher powered equipment) might be adaptable, the only difference would be that the lower frequency would reduce the efficiency a little bit causing the motors to get a bit hotter (Zubbly knows a ton more about this than I do and will no doubt correct me if I have this wrong :)


The only thing that I have that would work without conversion is the big green lathe, it's motor actually IS a 240 V motor, all the other stuff would need major modifications to make it work on the grid in the EU.


It worked out to something like this: transporting it all about $10,000 door to door, import duties about $2500 (it's industrial machinery, they figure if it's worth transporting then it's worth some money even if it's old stuff), and then another sum to rewire the triphase motor on the mill, and then it still remains
to be seen if we end up in a location where we have triphase power.


The most likely course of action that I can see at this point is that I'll subcontract the manufacturing of the parts (that was the plan all along anyway, I just wanted to be able to prototype).  
www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#66)
by stm on Mon Jun 6th, 2005 at 02:55:16 PM MST
(User Info)

Unless you have allready verified the information about import duties - please do it...

i'm living in Greenland, and if I move back to Denmark, the danish rules say that if i have owned something for at lease 6 months/1 year, then i do not have to pay import dutyes.

/Steffen

[ Parent ]



moving out of Canada (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by richhagen (richhagen (a t) Juno.com) on Tue May 31st, 2005 at 11:58:02 PM MST
(User Info)

I am so sorry to hear of your situation.  I wish there was something I could do to help.  It will be a big loss to my neighbors to the north.  Please keep us posted on your whereabouts if and when you move.  You have contributed greatly to the community here and I hope that you will continue to participate.  Rich Hagen
'A Joule saved is a Joule made'


Re: moving out of Canada (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by JW on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 03:03:25 AM MST
(User Info)

I moved out to phoenix back in 1996.

 They had acrage land 60 or so miles from the metropolas at like 2000 bux for like 8 acre parcles. No utilites, but "some" road, to the parcels if I remember correctly. I have moved back to miami fl since then. A nice thing about living close to the metropolis is that you can gain some income. Actually Jacquesm You Are a smart guy with some obivious skills, capitalize on that, and you can do well. Sign back on when you can...

JW

[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by thumbnail101 on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 04:23:58 AM MST
(User Info)

well sorry to hear about this ass backwards gov..here..
  I lived in the soo, for 23 years, now im down in windsor
but bin to the island many time...parents still live in the
soo, out by the airport., but they have a cottage in thessolon,
on big basswood lake, Are you the guy, that was selling solar on the island??
 



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 06:51:31 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

No, but he's a very good friend of mine (Laurence McKay). Him and his wife Dina are the people that helped us in getting this farm off the grid, he is one of the most knowledgeable people in the RE field that I have ever met with the exception of the Dans and Victor (who knows an enormous amount about windpower). He's been off the grid himself for almost 20 years now and he sells and installs systems for 100's of miles around.


The area where your parents are living is really quite nice, I've been there a few times on the lakeside (I have some friends there) and I think it is by far the best part of Sault Ste Marie.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by drdongle (Dr.Dongle1@juno.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 05:20:23 AM MST
(User Info)

Good luck J.I had no idea that Canada had fallen prey to the same sort of convoluted immigration insanity that the US has in recent years ( post 9/11)
I have a friend( born American)who lives in Russia 1/2 the year and Cypris the other half and they put him through hell over his Russian wife last time he tried to visit the states for business and family.
Seems that you picked up a lot of nice high dollar equipment, ALL of it out of my price range, this speaks highly of your skills so I suspect that you will land on your feet. Good Luck Again!!

Carpe Vigor, Dr.D


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 07:06:31 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

The Canadian immigration officials - get this - claim it is 'the us that is making them do all this'. I call bs on that. Canada is a sovereign nation and has it's own government and rules & regulations.


If they're so much under the heel of the US that they can not even make their own immigration laws anymore then I suggest they apply for membership of the US. That will get rid of 'blame Canada' for good :)


I'm not kidding on this, it has been quoted verbatim many times by border / immigration officials. They say the same to US citizens that they harrass at the border, as if it is some kind of payback scheme.


I would like to express the wish that the combined governments of the US and Canada will make some kind of pleasure cruise and then I would be in the market for renting a submarine :)


Democracy -> the government of the people: How come that no ordinary thinking person can see reason in what the government is doing. Way too much paper and too little connection with the real world if you ask me. It's all about job protection for politicians and ways to ream the coffers of the state.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



No such thing as democracy (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by ivandenisovich (pthurst (at) verizon (dot) net) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 09:08:00 AM MST
(User Info)


"then I suggest they apply for membership of the US. That will get rid of 'blame Canada' for good :)"

No, No, you don't want to ruin Canada too...  My wife and I have some land near Perth in Ontario.  Her family is from up there, although she and I are both US citizens.  We hope to move up there in a few years and build a house.  All of this sounds somewhat discouraging, but perhaps by that time the situation will have changed.

I hope that everything works out well for you.  I know what you mean about family staying together, I could not imagine being separated from my wife and daughter.

What part of Canada are you?

Regards,

Paul
Paul, I'd rather spend my money on anything but oil.
[ Parent ]



Re: No such thing as democracy (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:37:19 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

We're on St. Josephs Island, in Lake Huron, about 30 km from where the
three lakes meet.
www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 07:16:01 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

I've seen some pretty old people that were visiting their children in Canada for the first time treated at Pearson Airport in Toronto in such a humiliating way that I made a point of reporting the official that did that to his superiors. These people were visiting their children and newly born grandchild for the first time in their lives and instead of being made welcome they were mistreated so bad that the old man was ready to turn around and go home again. Contrast that with entering Europe as an outsider. The assumption seems to be here that anybody that wants to enter Canada is doing that to 'live off the system'. The irony is that it is hardly ever the immigrants that live off the system.


It's absolutely unbelievable the way these goons are treating visitors to Canada, as if half the world would want to be here.


I've lived here for 5 years now or so, and Canada is a strange country. There is a generation of people that are say 45 and up that are extremely hard working, and then there are a lot of people that are hanging of that older generation for their sustenance. An army of inspectors and unionized nonsense the likes of which I have not seen since the heydays of socialism in the former east block countries.


These people contribute a very low portion of the work but consume an enormous amount of the wealth. And then there is a political system that feeds of both groups without really contributing much other than vast quantities of hot air and paper (there's an energy source for you!).


It's interesting to note that if there is one country that really has untapped potential other than Australia it's Canada.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by rotornuts on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 09:09:14 AM MST
(User Info)

I think the whole sytem in Canada is geared to deny you. My cynical take on the matter is they feel if there is any opportunity to deny you anything then they simply no longer have to "deal" with you. In Canada the beurocrats are trained with the mentality of an insurance adjuster. I think this country is in for some sick times ahead if an individual such as yourself can't at least get landed immigrant status. My wifes mother just last year recieved her permenant resident status after 33 years as a landed immigrant. Now that's service!!!! Oh, and I'd like to say that the beurocratic cluster @%$#ing has nothing to do with the United States new boarder policy and I'm ashamed that a representative of the federal goverment would say so.

Feeling less proud to be a Canadian,
Mike

[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:42:00 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

33 YEARS ??? Holy shit, I thought we were in rough shape ! The not having to deal with it is something that strikes me as very true. We've paid a substantial fee to have our application processed and they're doing everything they can to avoid really looking at it but to disqualify it for some missing stamp or something like that. This obviously does not benefit Canada at all but these people do not really seem to care that much.


The fee is sufficient that they can pay a full timer for several months to go through those application with a magnifying glass, and an hour of dilligent work would show that we are doing some pretty cool stuff here.


Give my best to your wife's mom and tell her we sympathise !


I wished I had that kind of patience, but unfortuntaly that's not my strong suit. I like to move things and get things done and I feel seriously hampered in this.


Case in point: we can not do any decent corporate banking here until we get our status, which is dependent on our income which is dependent on our banking ability and so on.


We've invested in excess of $500K to get this all off the ground and we'll be lucky to get back half. I guess it's one way to get money in to the country but it's the people that really matter, the money is a side effect.
www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by electrondady1 on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 05:46:46 AM MST
(User Info)

very sorry to hear of your troubles. you and your family would be an asset to any nation . may i suggest you make your predicament public , ( use the media to shame the beurecrats into action) i would think that if you employ people,( especialy in the north) you have leverage. make a big stink on tv. can you local mp do nothing on your behalf?i feel shame you have fallen into the hands of these people who worship only inertia and there pathetic power.



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by picmacmillan (rmacmill@sympatico.ca) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 06:55:05 AM MST
(User Info) http:// www.frecklefarmloghomes.com

i was wondering the other day what had happened to you?..hadnt heard a post in a while...can you not do like some others do?, and visit your homeland for a day or so every 2 years?, until they sort it out?...i have a  friend from germany, and thats what he does?..but all in all, i respect your decision and wish you the best...doesnt matter what we do today, it wont matter a hundred years from now anyway :),..not to us anyhow....good luck my friend...pickster
http://www.frecklefarmloghomes.com
[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 07:59:53 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

if I were alone, or if it would be just my wife and me, then I would consider such a thing, but my kid needs a stable home, not something that changes every few years on this scale.


A friend of mine - who for obvious reasons remains unnamed here - has been doing this for almost 20 years now but he's single and if he is ever refused entry he just turns around, cancels his rent in Toronto and he's gone. For us that's not an option.

www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 07:00:37 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

I've been thinking about that, the problem is that it could backfire in case I ever want to come back here (say in 5...10 years or so when my kid is out of school).


something has to be done though to protect others from falling in to the same trap.


Our local mp has already become involved, so have the Mayor of Sault Ste Marie (who is getting pretty mad about this, he's working day and night to attract viable businesses which is pretty hard and the ones he gets thrown into his lap are being made unsustainable). The immigration officials for Ontario are on our side and on and on.


But the fact remains that in spite of all that the last 5 years count for nothing, it's as if they never happened, all kinds of threats will be hanging over our heads in case we do not 'perform'. Which I think is very unfair.


The real losers though are our now ex-employees, that is where the real pain is, as someone already remarked we will land on our feet, we've made a move like this once, we can do it again and we'll survive.


I do plan on continuing with RE when I get to Europe, initially on a much smaller scale though (space is at a premium there) and closer to a city with hopefully better schools than what goes for general education around here.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by whatsnext on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 07:57:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Jaques, I don't want to try to talk you out of your plans but does your son really want to move? Kids are very flexible and your son will adapt to his new surroundings easier than you. That said there is no better chance than a coin flip that he will do better in Europe than in Canada. If you're really worried about his educational oppertunities have you investigated having him private schooled? In six years you could ship him off to Michigan Tech, where I went, and he could learn how to consume beer and perhaps come back qualified to help you with your RE work. That should give you the time to get the Canadian goverment to just give up and let you stay.
John........



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:47:38 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

Hi John, that's excellent input. Whatever happens is conditional on having the security that when we do something it becomes part of something stable. We currently do not have that feeling at all and it starts to effect us all in less than subtle ways. I don't really know how to describe living 5 years in limbo slowly having all the options closed one by one and still not knowing where you stand.


Public education here sucks, it's that simple. Private schooling is available, but my son is 12 which means we would have to ferry him there and back (no schoolbuses for private schools) which adds roughly 4 hours of traveling time every day, including the winters which are murderous up here.


I realise that going to a good univerity in the states is an option but he will have to have a minimum level of high school in order to be able to qualify and I do not see that happening here.


From what I've seen so far the schools in Europre outshine the North American ones by an almost unimaginable difference. I can't really put that into words without going in to tedious detail, but let me just try to phrase it like this: After 3 years in school here my kid knows less than what he knew when he came here with the exception of the English language. He's the first reader/speller in his class nad he's a foreigner that had never spoken this language until we came to this part of Canada 3 years ago (I've been here a little longer than my wife and son, I was commuting Toronto->Amsterdam for two years before we moved).



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by whatsnext on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 12:15:14 PM MST
(User Info)

Alright, one more idea because none of us here want to see you leave. Home schooling. Many parents do it here in KC because our schools are the worst. It's a huge effort and a sacrifice but these are two things you seem capable of doing. If the schools are that bad you probably have other people on the island who would help. BTW, I thought you were a DIYer.
All the best however it works out, John............

[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 12:24:07 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

Yes, there's a lot of that going on around here, and we have been doing just that for the last two months in order to get my sons basic skills up to a level where he can connect with a school elsewhere at a little higher level.


The problem with homeschooling is that while it works well in theory in practice there is no substitute for interaction with others in a group. It's about developing social skills, factual knowledge and mental abilities.


We can provide some of that, but not all of that. There are very few children living in this area and in Europe at age 12 he would be getting 'subject teachers', who are a lot more knowledgeable than I am in their specific fields.


Highschool to me at his level is 28 years ago for me and my wife, and while we're anything but stupid I would hate to risk my kids education on my dated and by now very incomplete knowledge.


It really has gone past the stage where this is a decision yet to be made, the decision has been made, we've thought about this very much for the last 6 months or so (basically since RonB went back to the US), and we've come to the conclusion that our interests are not served by holding on to what we've built up here at all costs. Canada is a great country in many ways, but on balance I'd say that it's not that great that we have to give up life and limb for the right to be here.


as tough as the decision is I really can not think of any single issue being solved that would sway us the other way.
www.greenbits.com
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Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#36)
by drdongle (Dr.Dongle1@juno.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 05:53:00 PM MST
(User Info)

J. I think you should reconsider home schooling. Here in the US home schoolers consistently rate in the top 10% of all students and the supposed "socialization" problem is greatly over emphasised primarily by government school employees ( they hate the competition, it makes the look as bad as they really are). The Net is also a great source of educational material, not to be underestimated.
There are lots of ways for kids who are home schooled to socialize, neighbor kids, sporting events ( we have a local soccer team made up only of home schoolers). Home school families can also get together for community events, field trips and specialized classes offered by willing parents and tutors. Don't give up yet I believe there are resources that you have not yet taped.

Carpe Vigor, Dr.D
[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#37)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 07:59:51 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

1) there are about 200 kids on this island here


2) of those 200 about 180 go to school and are highly organised in churches and such of which we are not and want no part


3) the few kids that are left fall into two categories, a very few (three or so) kids that are like ours and the rest is of parents even more fanatically religious who think the school does not go far enough


You're spot on about the homeschooled kids being the smarter ones, there is no doubt about that. But other than that the population density here is so low that the social factor really is a problem, not because the school says so, but because my kid says so. He misses his friends, and the parents of kids around us won't let him play with their kids out of school because we are 'filthy atheists'.


To give you an idea how bad that gets, some group decided that they would play with little one but only if he would swear to them that he believes in god...


It's pretty sad, for a religion that is supposedly descended from a guy that preached tolerance of other people.


The reason why my son was expelled from school is because he used the word 'hell' in class, which last time I checked it was a word in ordinary use with some special connotations for some individuals that believe in certain extraterristrials.


To me it means nothing and I'm afraid the apple did not fall very far from the tree on that one. Kofi Annan used the word 'Hell' when asked if he was going to resign over the oil for food scandal (Hell NO! (good for him!)), which means that I think I have some authority to back that up.


They never even bothered to call us or respond to my letter....


I will continue to try to help my son to pick up the knowledge that he will need later in life to get by, but he is really longing for some friends to do stuff with, after all is said and done we're just a bunch of old folks to him (I feel pretty spry at 40 and will take on anybody for a game of pong but that does not change his view of things).


The socialization thing would be manageable in a different environment, but out here it's a real factor, and it does not change that even if we were to continue like we are doing right now that we would have absolutely no guarantee that we would be allowed to stay in the longer term. Maybe we would, maybe we wouldn't. I like to make arrangements about something and then DO IT. Not this eternal limbo that we are in right now, I can not cope with it much longer and I can tell the rest of us are picking up on the strain.


Consider a simple modification to your house, for you that's a no brainer, for me it is the worst possible waste of time right now and I'm still left with something that needs fixing that I look at every day that I sit around here waiting for the cavalry to ride in to tell us we're ok (or that we have 48 hours to leave or so..).


Not a good way to live, and you'll have to take my word from me on that we're pretty tough people to put down. It's like erosion, it doesn't really have a moment when it happens, it slowly wears you out.


Once again thank you for your input, I should have possibly raised this subject here earlier but I never really thought it was 'on topic', though I did discuss some bits and pieces of this with DanB when I visited him, our situations have quite a few elements in common, and so do our attitudes to plenty of things (except for variable pitch :)
www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#42)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 12:52:36 AM MST
(User Info)

I certainly do not want to argue and we are talking about abit different things here also since I am stuck with USA schools and you have Canada and Europe schools to consider also. But my long post/rant here is based on my experince and opions on home schooling vs. public school for anyone wantng to read it.

I do not beleave the below. Although it may be true in your case, not in general is my opion.

"The problem with homeschooling is that while it works well in theory in practice there is no substitute for interaction with others in a group. It's about developing social skills, factual knowledge and mental abilities.

We can provide some of that, but not all of that. There are very few children living in this area and in Europe at age 12 he would be getting 'subject teachers', who are a lot more knowledgeable than I am in their specific fields."

On the part about "more knowledgeable than I am in their specific fields"
 Certainly it may be that way in some schools, but it is my experience about half the teachers know to assign the lesson in a book, check the answers turned in by students with the answer in the back of the book! Memorize the words they should say for the lessons and examples provided in the book. I am not joking about this at all!
I recall the forth grade class my daughter was in, one question on a test was wrong, but she had the correct answer. When I asked her about it, she said no one in the class got that one right. I went to school and talked to the teacher, she argued with me the book was correct and the students were wrong. She did not know how to do the work and get the correct answer either and avoided it, and me best she could.
 I had to find another teacher that could actually do the work and then have her called to the office and told to correct the test grades to the new answer.
 I WAS PISSED!
My daughter still had an A but it did raise other students grades on that test that barely had a lower grade, border line grades. And this was only 4rth grade work!

I have corrected teachers many times over the years, many realize the mistake right away if pointed out to them, or sometimes I have to show it in detail, other books, several other teachers etc..
 And I am dumb as a rock myself. How many answers did I NOT get corrected??

When I was in high school myself many many years ago, I was showing the teacher how to do work on an engine and sometimes giving him the correct answers in a small engines repair class. I didn't learn anything there, and only thing I knew on my own was from working on my own cars. Still don't know how to fix a lawnmower, though I could figure it out or read a manual. I got all A's in the class though.

That part about "there is no substitute for interaction with others in a group. It's about developing social skills," is from my point of view a load of crap! I say this from experience here. That was one of the things that got shoved at me constantly when I wanted to home school my daughter from the start. Was one of the reasons I gave up and let her go to school, big mistake!

First, that was not so hot when I went to school either in a bigger city. After elemtary reccesses end there is no socail time in shool. Sure you can break the rules and talk in class and be told to shut up and socailize on your own time. So ya you got that 5 minutes if your lucky to talk to all your friends that ride other busses to the other side of town that you never see except at school. Big deal!
So then you get home and socailize with the kids living around you that you never see at school :)

And just what was that your own time stuff supposed to be? 1 hour to school, 8hrs at school, 1 hour home, 3hrs or more homework. Duh, that's 13hrs or more! Where is this MY TIME crap supposed to come in at, while I sleep?? 3hrs for everything in MY LIFE, food, bath, family, mow the yard, etc.. and 8hours to sleep.

 Then you have like around here, nice place, nice people, average or above schools, pretty good as far as pubic schools really. Home school is what I SHOULD have done!

It just is not all that great, kids don't always welcome outsiders, here most have thier own little "CLICK" and if you weren't born here you barely fit in at all with the locals. Daughters first school classmates, their somewhat friends, but no-one invites her places, seldom spends the night at others kids houses, has been invited  to very few birthday parties, etc... So what Socail group, interaction? Sitting in a class being told to shut up and read the book when they speak to each other, the 2 minutes they run from class to class? That great 45 minute bus ride with kids you don't ever see but on the bus and live to far away to play with, and your told to sit here and be quite too!!

My Kid is very good kid, and we are all born US white people and in a mostly white area, but it's still basic discrimination type of thing because she was born in North USA not 10 miles away. People is people to me, black white, mexican etc... were all the same, so the part I mention of white is not prejudice talk, just pointing out we are the same as them, not racail diference etc.. which should not matter anyway.
 Just not born here in town. Though she went to school there since kindergarden with the same kids in every class. Small school, one class for each grade.

This part of her never being invited anyplace and such got me pissed off, first time she decided she wanted to change schools I rented a house just to get her in that school! No other real reason, just to have the address. She has probably done more with those new friends in the last 5 months than her other school friends in the last 8 years already. I mean as far as them asking her to do stuff with them. We always had kids going with us when WE wanted to TAKE THEM places.

Now to put this in a bit more perspective for the last 8 years, we have had some of those kids over for the night, taken some to amusement parks, roller skating, theater shows, etc... I always pay for the extra kids stuff too, don't mind it, they don't need money with us for food tickets or such, just if they want alot of junk souviniars and such they buy for themselfs, and I buy some of that stuff for em too.
 Every little thing my kid is giving them stuff and inviting them to do things. Nothing in return though. It's not that I expect a return, but I expect her to NOT be the only kid in class to never be invited to a party. Snobs are glad to receive, but otherwise ingore. At least that's the way it feels at times. They have friends over all the time, parties, etc.., just my kid is rarely invited to do anything with them, but other kids are often.

 I spent Thousands on other kids in the last 8 years or so taking them places and doing things, my kid is the last to be invited for anything, even a birthday party, but she is still dumb enough to take them the present and give it to them at school :(
 Now there she is dumb as a rock!
4 years they have a party and you don't get invited? 5th year they get no present!
 I finanly put my foot down awhile back and set a rule, if there is a party and you ain't invited you ain't giving a gift! Period!

 Kinda like calling the neighbor "Hey were having a big party, we don't want you to come, but could you run to town and pick up the beer for us".

 She had one friend that does invite her over to spend the night sometimes, she has been here many times also, gone with us to Branson MO for theaters and amusment parks and we even took her about a week and went to Ohio to a BIG amusemant park and camping for 2 days and nights. I don't care that they never take my daughter anywhere, they don't have much money I think, and they don't do anything themselfs.
I think the only time that girl does much is when she goes with us, well all that is fine, those 2 are good friends, she invites my kid over to her house sometimes for the night.

Now, as far as kids she has done alot more with, the ones that invite her places too, she has met them at skating rinks, church,state park, even strangers at amusemant parks where I got to know the parents and we had mutual interests etc... and got to be freinds.

So where is all that " interaction with others in a group. It's about developing social skills," stuff comming from. NOT SCHOOL, but every day life in general.

Group stuff, gangs, drugs, sit there shut up and read, that is school group stuff.
The majority of kids are NOT on the ball team, chearleaders, band or other group things, only a few are. And beyond elementary school they are NOT given recces time to go play and interact either, it's class, class, class, lunch, more classes. And the home work takes away from personal time that they could go somewhere "for interaction with others in a group, developing social skills, factual knowledge and mental abilities".

While being home schooled not only can a child get a BETTER education than a public school provides in most areas, they can also learn facts of life through actaull experience, hands on training, visiting places in person ocasionally, not just read a book about them, etc... Depending on the parents, time, money, etc..
 Most public school kids see pictures of Mt Rushmore, mine has been there, Niagra falls too. Someday the Grand Canyon maybe. That is learning much more in person than the book reading in school. If it weren't for school she would have learned about the cival war by visiting battle grounds, museums etc.. Dinosaurs too same way. While traveling she could be reading the same school books so she would have had 2-3Xs the education she has now. But NO, I was talked into putting her in public school and we are tied down 9 months of the year so she can learn far less stuff in a much longer time.

Even for people who never travel anywhere, you can teach a kid in a couple hours far more than they learn in an entire school day. Plus they can get hands on experience and put the knowledge to practical use as they learn it. What better way to learn math is important and put it to real use than figuring out the angles and decimals and fractions needed to measure and cast a stator? What better way to learn about motors and generators etc.. than building a working gennie? Right there, Science class and math in one :)
Science fair at her school was a joke, stick pennies in vinager and see what happens and 10 or more kids doing the same thing! Never did she do the motor running from a battery spinning a second motor lighting a bulb, showing how they are built inside and how they make power when spun etc.. Nope, stupid pennies or a pot with a flower in it stuff. Ok for 1sr 2cnd grade, stupid for 5th 6th.

 At age 4-5 my daughter knew alot of fractions! Yes that young, why? Because she helped me working on cars, handing me tools. She had to learn what 1/2", 7/16" 9/32" was, 1/4" rachet etc...  Often I would try to trick her, I need half a 3/8" socket, she would had me the 3/16" after thinking a minute. Now she don't know what a pipe wrench is, explained it to her when I needed one the other day, she couldn't find it, I did, it was laying in plain sight, she said oh that thing.

She learned to count to 100 very early while traveling acrossed country, and spelling some pretty large words too. Not everything has to be written to learn it, talking while traveling is very good to, rather cross country or to the local store and back.
 Games are great for learning, I used to also write 20 math problems on paper, some extremly hard for her level. She got a penny for each correct answer and 25 cents if she got all 20 of them right, she would get those hard ones 90% of the time so she could have the extra nickle.

 All of which she forgot by the end of 2cnd grade! When school started she did not have TIME for me to be teaching her, it was all busses, school and homework time! She had straight A's in everything, now she was down to a C in math this last school period :(
Partly because of the school change, she should have had a B, still not good for her.
I would have her doing Trig by now, and on the way I would have learned it too :)

That's all stuff no-one mentions when they WANT the kids to go to public school!

Take computers for example also. I let my daughter have a slumber party at my office with a few of her new school friends. She camcordered them dancing and fun stuff and I recorded some for her. Now SHE should be making her own DVD's by now, but no, she won't let me teach her how. Heck she can't even rip and copy the ones I make yet :(
Too busy with school homework, cheerleading, or other things. So I made the DVD and printed it for her friends, I could not get her to make the cover either.
So finnally I gave her blank cases with disks inside and said that's what they get, I ain't doing the covers. We were going to take them to her freinds the next day and it was late already.
 She sat down, ran the dvd on her PC, captured the images, edited them, made covers, fancy text, sized to case, printed, cut and inserted the covers in the case. Maybe an hour tops for all of them. The most time was deciding what images she wanted and finding them on the dvd! Her friends were as amazed by the covers she made as much as by the actaul DVD inside.
 I think at school now they have taught how to change the desktop background and maybe advanced as far as menu colors :(
 So where did she actaully learn something usefull? All of her computer education is from home! She can do alot of stuff!
Most her friends with home computers available can play games or surf the net, still more than the school has taught :(

 I ain't so smart myself, but there is nothing in school she has learned she could not have learned at home better and in less time, there is far more she could have learned at home, but the school is holding her back, just not enough time for both!

 In many places there are home school groups also, often they meet a few hours aweek or so and help each other. Maybe one person is super in math, another in windgennies :)
 So the kids still get the group socail stuff but better than public schools and the education is normally far better than any public school.

A nasty borring public school is nothing more than a very low security prison with home release at night, like a work release from a real jail. And every day our children get treated more and more like convicts instead of students. Is it any wonder so many have so many problems in life? If you are trained to be a convict, well... breaking the law is what your supposed to do right? I mean is that not what a convict is, someone that was convicted of breaking the law? So that is what many of them are trained for and that is what many of them do. Rather streets gangs, or a few doing drugs, it's the public schools creating most of those problems. That's your socail interaction in many larger areas, even some smaller areas too!

Well, that's my rant. Hopefully the schools your kids go to are better than the average schools, many are better, many are worse. My kid goes to a decent one and the one she did go to was decent also. But teachers are dumb as a rock often.
 Oh ya, then you have those that pick favorites, like teachers that love the kids on the ball team and choose them for everything and pick on the ones that are not on the team. Another reason I took my daughter out of the first school this year. Nice lesson to teach kids eh, be meen to the ones not on the team. Discrimination comming from a public school teacher. Let the ball players talk in class all they want and just say be quite once in awhile, assign 500 word report to any student that sneezes and is not on the team. Ya basically, maybe not quite that bad, but that's the way it was in 2 classes for a few students that weren't basketball players. Boys or girls, not a team member not really welcome in class I geuss.

If I had it to do over, my daughter would never have gone to one and she would be designing websites and authoring her own original DVDs right now, instead of me authoring them for her. She is pretty good with the camcorder I gave her, but she does nothing with the footage she tapes :(
Wish I had a camcorder myself. I gave her my digital camera too, it works better for her than it did for me :(
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#48)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 07:58:18 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

hehe, that's a long rant buddy !


We should have had this discussion some months ago, it really is good stuff.


I see your point of view, clearly, no mistake about that.


However the social skills bit we disagree on. Both my parents are pretty smart cookies (or rather were, my dad died a couple of years ago), but I would never be where I am today if not for the schools I've gone to. Both on the social level and in the knowledge department. BUT - and that's a huge but - I lucked out in two things, the schools I went to after about age 11 had a few - not all of them, but the ones that mattered - excellent teachers that were doing a lot more than just stuffing facts down your throat and checking the answers in the back of the book.


That's Holland though, and I think that may be where things go wrong a bit here, I'm comparing MY school time with homeschooling and of course you're entirely right about that, I should be comparing this school here vs homeschooling.


The difference here is though, that I actually can move to Europe, we can get our child fluent in yet another language (he's right now fluent in Dutch and English), he can be closer to his family (during the time that we were away from Poland, which is since he was born my wifes brother got married and now has to sons about his age) and so on.


It's the TOTAL that makes the difference, not any one single issue. Decisions like this are not made in a day, though it may seem like that to the outside world. We've gone over this for months, trying to hold back from having to rip up our lives again with all the consequences that will have. But once the decision is made it would have to be a huge difference to swing the balance back over to the other side.


The school situation here is definitely one of the larger issues. The lack of stability of our continued presence here is one. As is the lack of children around here that have a 'clean' look at the world around them. (instead of being turned in to little religious propaganda engines parotting their parents).


I want my child to have an open mind, to approach the world based on skeptical evaluation of the facts that he is exposed to. I don't want him to blindly follow anybody and be critical about what he learns. I also want him to behave in an ethical fashion, and to be realistic in his expectations of life and those around him, their strenghts and limitations.


If that sounds like a 'lofty goal' then look at it from my point of view, I don't have 12 children, I have only one. I spend way too little time with him because I'm too busy doing 'my own thing', and trips like the one to Colorado help us a lot in getting a feeling for each other. That part of the school system ('the school of life') I can provide.


But I'm not a history teacher, a biology teacher, a geography teacher, a german teacher, french teacher, latin teacher and so on. I know bits and pieces of those subjects, but that's not the same as being able to transfer that knowledge to somebody else.


I could teach you - given enough time on my part - to program computers, and maybe simple electronics (though guys like DonC would be way better at than I will ever be).


The rest of it I'll gladly pass to people that really know their stuff, and if I know that that's available then I feel I have no right to withhold it.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#39)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 08:52:33 PM MST
(User Info)

I don't know about Europe schools but I agree most US schools suck. Put it straight and to the point!

My daughter was better in math and spelling BEFORE 1st grade than she was AFTER second grade! That was with me the all time mispellin champ of the world teaching her.
Most of it she learned before starting any school, pre-kindergarden, while we travled together. But family fought me every step about the home schooling I prefered over sending her to public school, and being remote she wanted school so she could have friends.

Wish I had followed my first instincts now and ignored everyone else!
I may not be all that smart myself, but I could teach her more in 1-2hours than what she learns in a entire day in school, probably much more!
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#44)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 07:31:24 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

That's quite true. I think that part of it is mostly due to the concentrated attention that you can give your child and the fact that you (should) understand them better than anybody else on the planet.


I also noticed a regression after sending my kid to school, but I did notice that he's much happier to be dealing with his peers than with his elders. I can play hide & seek only so often :)


Travelling is a great way to get to know your child better, the trip I made to TomW and the Dans with my son is one that we'll remember for the rest of our lives.


www.greenbits.com
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moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#50)
by richhagen (richhagen (a t) Juno.com) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 08:29:50 AM MST
(User Info)

I'm still not resigned to the fact of your taking a long European vacation, however, if you do, I would consider holding onto that CNC table of yours until your return.  

I am building one now, and well, two are better than one.  I have been working on a nice VB program to generate the g-codes for any set of blade parameters, optimizing each x position for the optimum angle and chord width for maximum lift for a given tsr, and stock lumber size.  It basically calculates the ideal angle and chord width, and adjusts the NACA 4415 profile accordingly, then converts each coordinate to polar and rotates it accordingly.  The coordinates are then converted back to rectangular.  The resulting profile is then zeroed to the top of the front side of the stock and checked to see if it fits (maximum y less than stock width, and maximum z less than stock depth) if not then the calculated maximum angle and chord is used, if it does fit, then it checks the maximum cut depth and compares this to the cutter flute depth to determine how many passes to make.  Then the tool path is generated for that station.  The overall endmill length has to be longer than the deepest cut though as it steadily works its way from the root to the tip. In this way I should be able to easily build a rotor to match a specific alternator.  With two tables, I can set one table up for the front and one up for the back.  Ideally setting it up to complete a set of blades each time I load them.

If you are interested, the terms could be, $3000 canadian, and you can return the money and pick it up when you want (we want to make it easy for you to stay, or remain in the continent) Of course it won't be sitting idle in the mean time so there might be some wear and tear. :-)  The only potential problems would be -

  1. getting it to Chicago, I have a cargo van but I'm not sure if it would fit, or I could rent a trailer for the trek.
  2. what hassles would I have about bringing it from Canada to the U.S. (would it be allowed, and duties - ect.)
  3. I am not overly familiar with with the process of converting U.S. dollars to Canadian Dollars in order to pay you.  (because of your business, I bet that you are)
Rich Hagen
'A Joule saved is a Joule made'
[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#51)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 10:19:27 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

That's an interesting one. I have some software in python for you if you want it that does just about everything you have just described and then some. It's not very elegant because it was written at breakneck speed but it may have some stuff in there that you can use. It also does 3D simulation of the cutting process so you can verify if it works properly before scrapping lumber and it does some nifty stuff that allows you to cut convex and concave surfaces with 'straight' bits instead of with ball bits. (straight bits wear much less and are cheaper than ball bits).


If you want that code then let me know and I'll zip it up and post it.


RonB will get the table though, I've already commited to that.


Also it needs some finishing touches, but it was good enough and fast enough for the jobs that I needed to do with it.


www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by finnsawyer on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 09:00:22 AM MST
(User Info)

Sorry to hear about your problems.  Whatsnext mentions Michigan Tech (MTU), which is located in Houghton, Michigan, about five hours drive west of you.  Are you aware that the west shore of Lake Superior (west of Houghton) is the one area in Michigan considered favorable for wind power development?  That's where I live.  As far as schools are concerned, I graduated from Houghton High School and went straight to MIT and then The University of Michigan.  I don't know why you feel the European schools are better.  It seems to me it's what's in the individual that counts.  Anyway, land is still fairly available here in large amounts, so you might consider locating here.  If you wish to stop by drop me an E-mail at thefinnsawyer@yahoo.com.
I'd be happy to show you around.  In any case I'd like to wish you the best of luck.  I did enjoy reading your posts.
GeoM


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:51:59 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

I agree so much with you that it's the individual that counts, no contest there. But the schools are geared towards bringing out the best in their kids or they're geared towards being places where people leave their kids while they go to work to have them looked after.


I simply can not excuse the educational system here and it has explained a lot of the difficulties that I have seen our various employees get in to over the last couple of years.


Imagine: a bookkeeper that can not do basic arithmetic without a calculator, a salesperson that doesn't know how to find Japan on a globe (no kidding, and I hear that in America that's worse), someone who has a student loan that does not know how to do basic interest calculations and believes her loan is interest free and so on.


And we're talking about Toronto here, during the first two years I was here. On the Island here the situation is - unbelievable but true - very much worse.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



moving out of Canada (3.00 / 0) (#41)
by richhagen (richhagen (a t) Juno.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:11:02 PM MST
(User Info)

Not trying too hard to defend the U.S.'s schools here, there is a large amount of room for improvement, but I think there is a big difference depending on which public schools and in what areas you are talking about.  A lot of the suburban schools are pretty good, but the inner city ones tend to do worse.  The rural ones are a mixed batch, mostly not so good.  One problem here is that teachers don't make enough salary relative to other occupations and it is therefore difficult to interest the best of the best to be teachers unless they have an inner drive to do that sort of thing regardless of income.  Let's see how I did in school.  
  1. I can do math without a calculator ....as long as my computer is handy, but I can't remember how to use an abacus
  2. Japan is that electronics and car place with all the factories right?  I had an uncle that went there on a government sponsered endeavor in the 40's.  I imagine he was familiar with Mitsubishi, probably never would have imagined people would be driving them on the roads here though.
  3. Interest I have, ... in RE which is good, but not so good on money I owe.
It seems to me that one of the most important things you can learn in school is how to look stuff up and research things for yourself.  If you can learn that, then the sky is the limit.  Rich Hagen
'A Joule saved is a Joule made'
[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada (3.00 / 0) (#47)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 07:41:05 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

true enough Rich, learning how to learn is what it's all about. The ability to take something new that you have never done before and to immerse yourself in it while integrating the new knowledge with the bits and pieces that you've already got.


Funny about the Mitsubishi, another brand like that is Husqvarna I believe, though they were on the allied side.


Guns, sewing machines and chainsaws :)


Q: which one does not belong in the list


A: the sewing machine, it only hurts but does not kill

www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada (3.00 / 0) (#55)
by Volvo farmer on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 04:57:45 PM MST
(User Info)

Uhhh, I believe Husqvarna is Swedish. Not on any side, IIRC.

Volvo Farmer

May you always have success in your quest to irritate those who you despise. -Ben Goode
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada (3.00 / 0) (#57)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2005 at 08:30:08 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

you are absolutely correct...
www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]


Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by troy on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:16:39 AM MST
(User Info)

Jacques,

Sorry to hear of your troubles, but not entirely surprised.  I lived in Ontario (an hour east of Toronto) for almost five years.  I did eventually become a landed imigrant, but it took heroic amounts of time, patience and no small quantity of money.  The ironic part is that even the immigration officials admitted that this was a slam dunk example (no criminal history, Canadian wife, US husband, everything in order, etc, etc, etc), but was still tedious beyond description.  And that was pre-911...

So now we're back in the US and much happier for it.  I wish you the best, but think you could get a terrific education for your son on U.S. soil.  

But every situation has its own complexities, and you're a pretty sophisticated decision maker so I leave it for you to do what is best in your family's interest.

Finest regards,

troy



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 11:53:47 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/

Thank you Troy, it's amazing how many people have popped up out of the woodworks in the last couple of days with similar experiences.


The interesting bit is that 'true' Canadians are of the opinion that their country is very easy to get in to. I wonder where they get that impression because it simply is not true.



www.greenbits.com
[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by rotornuts on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 12:28:38 PM MST
(User Info)

Something to consider is the fact that you are in the east. I mean no offence to easterners as I was born in Ottawa and my mother lives in Nova Scotia. Aside from British Columbia ,which is it's own worst nightmare, I find the eastern provinces to be exceedingly beurocratic(funny that word has taken on such a derogatory slant). I've been in and out of Alberta from BC for several years now and find Alberta a far different place in which to deal with goverment, even at the federal level. The regional federal employees here seem to have a somewhat better attitude and as you've pointed out that's the real problem. The culture of the unwilling civil servant has taken hold at several levels of goverment in much of this country which is a bleeding shame for my kids but so far... I have been having fair success at most levels here in Alberta. I don't know if immigration applications are processed at regional centers or if they all go to Ottawa but representatives from a different region may be more helpfull.

I recall when Canada's new Immigration policy came into effect a while back, an NGO decided to take the list of Nobel prize winners and see if they would qualify. Appearently the results were along the lines of 10 - 15% would qualify under todays rules.

Frankly I think this country has rode it's reputation into the dirt along time ago and those in control just can't see it. We have expected that our successes during the 40's to late 60's should carry us forever.

Mike
Edmonton Alberta Canada

[ Parent ]



Re: moving out of Canada, lots of stuff for sale (3.00 / 0) (#30)
by jacquesm (j@ww.com- I run a whitelist, add 'stjoes' to msg) on Wed Jun 1st, 2005 at 12:56:41 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.greenbits.com/