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anyone working on one of these things??


By bob g, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 03:27:06 PM MST
i probably will get rocks thrown at me for this....

but i have to ask.

is anyone working on a wood gasifier? have one working? or planning to build one? here on the board.

i know this isn't windpower, or solar, or biogas, or biodiesel, but alot of folks burn wood for heat in the winter, and alot of scrap gets buried or burned outdoors anyway.

i have been researching the usual suspects, (wind, sun, water power, etc) and now comes wood gas, or gengas.

i figure i want as many possible sources of power at my disposal to be incorporated into the design. that way i am not too dependant on any one source.

so just thought i would ask, and don't worry i dont plan on cutting down trees to feed it.

bob g

anyone working on one of these things?? | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by mikey ny on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 09:54:00 AM MST
(User Info)

hey there,
   I had done a bit of research last winter on the whole producer gas and got a lot of great info on this forum, you might want to check the archives of this board. I spoke to Tom Reed from Colorado and got one of his books on line. Building a gasifier is not too hard but what i wanted to do is store the gas for later use. My thought was to make the gas and clean out the impurities and use a small compressor, drawing the gas through the intake of the compressor and then pump it into a propane tank to about 100 psi or so. I also figured it would help if i drew a vacume on the tank first. I would like to use the gas in a gas burner gun as a backup for my hs tarm wood boiler. I have not yet taken on this project but i plan to in the future. I have no idea how long one tank would last or if it would even be worth the effort but it sure would be a fun project. Nothin to loose has done some experimenting with this stuff also.I have been told that if you could liquify the producer gas it would take up about 600  times less space than the gas but you must chill the gas to minus 265 degrees f and i can't do that (yet). I do know that it could be an explosive project so be carefull, use common sense when fooling around with this stuff. As an experiment we filled an empty paint can with small scraps of dry hardwood, put the lid on and poked about 12 nail holes in the top of it. We put onto a bed of hot coals in the wood boiler and after about 15 min. there were 6 inch flames shooting out of the top of the can. When it was done all that was left was a small pile of charcoal, good for cooking out.
Mr. Mikey... "I thought I made a mistake but I was wrong"


Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by redeyecow (roddickblues@bluebottle.com) on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 10:41:26 AM MST
(User Info)


  Hi ,  
           Small methane producers in India use a cement dome with a tap at the top. The edge of the dome is submerged in a water tank to create a seal.  Pumping gas into
the dome. causes it to lift and creates a constant pressure at the tap for stoves etc.  Might be a bit tricky in cold climates.
   keith
Barn's burnt down--now--I can see the moon.
[ Parent ]


Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by DualFuel on Mon Aug 29th, 2005 at 08:35:55 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi,
 Right now am working with producer design #2. Its fueling a small Toyota truck. These things work but one needs to follow the detailed plans from Doug Williams' web site, Fluidyne.
 Its actually doable but you really need to study up on what its all about.
DF

[ Parent ]


So much for that....now (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 01:47:44 PM MST
(User Info)

 Well I feel like throwing a rock at you....LOL!!
if you don't answer....
    http://www.fieldlines.com/comments/2005/8/19/12236/5371/2#2
  Just kiddin !
  But really the last time you mentioned it I
don't think even Ghurd understood....
   Okay ...you connect one end of the coil to a
commutator bar and instead of looping it around
and connecting it to the commutator bar 180 degrees apart you just ground it instead ??
                Just slightly puzzled.
             respectfully ...
                   ( :>) Norm.
( :>) Norm


Re: So much for that....now (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by bob g on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 05:28:52 PM MST
(User Info)

sorry i guess i dropped the ball on that post, my aplologies

now, as for your question

i will try to describe the process, as i am not able to post a diagram as of yet

to start with the commutator is shorted all around, to in effect make it a slip ring, do this by soldering all the bars/segments together.

i will assume you have stripped the armature core bare,

if i am not mistaken i used around 22 guage wire to wind with,

either start by soldering the start of the winding to the shaft or drill and screw it to the armature core, we will be adding a brush to pick up that end at the end of the shaft later

if you have 10 slots,

number the slots 1 thru 10

starting with slot 3 and 4 wind it full of wire, keep in mind the direction you are winding it,

then skip over and fill slots 2 and 5

then skip over and half fill slots 1 and 6

then skip over and fill slots 8 and 9 continueing in the same direction as viewed thru the core

skip over to and fill slots 7 and 10

then skip over to slots 1 and 6 and finish filling.

it would be nice to keep track of the turn count and try to keep them even, even if you are off a few turns it won't make alot of difference, we arent makeing computer grade ac power here. and as for balance, the speed is so low that it won't make a lot of difference either.

to end solder the wire to the shorted commutator

to take power off , connect to the brush/s one output lead

fab a end brush to rub on the end of the shaft for the other output lead.
dont try to just take it off the case as it will try to go thru the bushings, and maybe lose some power or shorten their life

hopefully this will give you the general idea

sometimes you will have unequal slot arrangments, and will have to wind one side more than the other, which will end up with an unusual waveform, higher positive cycle lower negative cycle, or visa versa, but if you are going to rectify it won't make alot of difference anyway.

one more thing, add some insulation where the windings cross over to the other pole, seems they have a tendency to wear thru and short there.

when done if you scope the waveform, you will note some ragged edges or spikes from the pole/slots of the armature, here again, we ain't makeing computer grade power, but good enuf to rectify

bob g

[ Parent ]



Re: So much for that....now (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 06:03:55 PM MST
(User Info)

  Bob g,
      In other words we have ....a 2 pole
  a c generator which we can attach a full wave
bridge rectifier.....
             Okay bob g, thanks a lot...
 if I don't get it right the first time can  always do it over....simpler to rewind this way.
             Havin' Fun in NE Ohio!
                   ( :>) Norm
( :>) Norm
[ Parent ]


Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 02:02:22 PM MST
(User Info)

Yea, I do to many things at once and nothing was getting completed, now I slowed down and doing less and getting more done, I think.

I got a little dairy on a 10 or 20 minute quicky I built to make charcoal and gas from wood. Lots of ways to do it and most work, some better than others depending on the use intended. I need alot of charcoal and baking the gas out of the wood to make the charcoal makes the gas. I can clean and cool that gas and then run a gennie on it or about anything that would use propane.

As for building a normal gasifier that burns the wood, starves out the oxygen, then the heat bakes more gas out of the wood which cannot burn do to lack of the oxygen, those work too and are not that hard to build either. You do need to be sure it is well sealed at joints and such. Most of those types work by vacuum. The engine sucks the vacuum on the system which is what draws in the air and burns the wood etc.. If you have a leaky joint or weld you loose vacuum and suck air and it does not work well.
You can built it as an up draft or downdraft type system. Each as it's own advantage I geuss. One sucks air from top and burns at bottom, the other is reverse and sucks air from bottom and burns at top. Big advantage for the down draft is the top does not really need sealed and you can add wood while using it. An up draft will loose the vacuum and stop working if you open it to add more wood, though you might be able to build it different ways and avoid that.

 I started on those to but stopped for now. For stationary use like a gennie or stove I feel I am better making charcoal and getting gas that way. For motor feul for a vehicle I am now trying making alcohol instead. My main problem with a gasifier for a vehicle is each vechicle would need to have one. I have 4 being driven now, and alot more sitting here used seldom. If I could compress the gas from the charcoal maker into a tank and carry it like propane that would work for me. Untill I can do that though, I think alcohol will fill my currant needs better.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.



Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by bob g on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 06:11:30 PM MST
(User Info)

you got it Norm!

if we had room for two slip rings we could use em, but failing that, converting the commutator into one slip ring and the shaft end into another works for me. :)

good luck and keep us posted

bob g



Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by hobot on Sat Aug 20th, 2005 at 09:48:46 PM MST
(User Info)

Here's more on wood gas, cooking mostly but leads to vehicle
history, always remembering in back of mind the WWII clips with
taxis and wood stove on back or top durring rationing days
and old movie When the World Stood Still and everything else was
shut down.
http://www.repp.org/discussiongroups/resources/stoves/contributions.html

hobot



Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by ghurd on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 05:14:00 AM MST
(User Info)

My neighbor was stationed in Japan 1945 to 1947.
Many of the delivery type veheciles were, as he describes, "charcoal powered",
And he says he dosen't mean steam powered.
G-

[ Parent ]


Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by elvin1949 (elvin1949@yahoo.com) on Sun Aug 21st, 2005 at 07:03:23 PM MST
(User Info)

my father was in japan right at the end of the war.
He got a chance to look at one.
It used rice straw.
It was set up just like NTL's charcoal maker.
Rice straw cooking rice straw,pipe coming out of the top going straight to the intake.Gas was controled by the size of the fire.ie come to a hill add more straw to the fire,oh it was a delivery truck.
later
elvin

[ Parent ]


Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Mon Aug 22nd, 2005 at 06:05:34 AM MST
(User Info)

Hmmm, did post 3-5 get to a different subject? Wrap wire around a communicator bar?? :)

Ok, if using this gas for an engine. Remember that it comes out with various impurties also. Tars and resins that are not good for an engine and depending on your setup maybe  even some ash.

The above is why you really want to cool and filter the gas well before running it. Cooling it will condense the steam, tars, creasote etc.. that will eat your engine.
 In the old vehicles it was cheap and easy to just pull a head do a vavle job and stick it back on. Not so with todays cars though! So where in the WWII days we find pics of the gasers mounted on the rear of a vehicle feeding an engine directly (it looks like) they could clean the valves themselfs for a buck in a couple hours on a saturday when needed :)

To cool the gas is easy, lots of ways to do that. To filter the gas I think charcaol would be about the best filter to use. I never got that far yet, but I was going to make a batch of charcoal then put it in another barrel as a filter for the gas. This charcoal would suck up the inpurities letting just clean gas by. When the charcoal barrel filter needs new charcoal I figure the dirty stuff can be burned as a heat source to bake the next batch of charcoal and gas.

It must be rememberd if using for a vehicle that the system must be well sealed for the engine to draw a vacume to keep the process running. Also when dealing with the gas from a gasifier you have alot of carbonmonoxide so a leak of escaping gas could be deadly, even worse so than a normall leaky autoexhaust would be.

I been busy with other stuff and gone awhile etc.. but I think this is something I may get back into myself also for One truck for now. You also of course have to have a way for the engine to get the feul in correct feul air mixture that various constantly for a vehicle whereas a gennie could just be setup to run a constant speed and forgotton nearly
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.



Re: anyone working on one of these things?? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by bob golding (photoman290 at yahoo dot com) on Tue Aug 23rd, 2005 at 01:56:03 PM MST
(User Info)

hi bob g, not working on onwe yet but its on the list. try here for lots of info.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/messages

good luck
bob golding.
( would be bob g but you got in first;-))



anyone working on one of these things?? | 13 comments (13 topical, 0 editorial)
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