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Solar cells and frame taking shape.


By cr8zy1van, Section Solar
Posted on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 05:41:54 AM MST
Suggestions welcome.

I got my solar cells today! So I immediately started getting everything together so that I can start soldering them together. Here are a couple pictures of the process.

I am using 1/8 tile spacers for the mock up. The plastic sheet is 1/4 thick and guaranteed for 10 years against yellowing. (I tried to get the thickest that I could to minimize flex) I will also use angle iron and pourable plastic to permanently fix the cells to the front. Since these will be used on a bus I would rather over build than run into problems later. I am just mocking up the spacing in this picture, so a hot glue gun works great. I have not taken off the protective lining yet.

One of the broken cells I am using for the mock up.


5 cells to get the spacing just right. I left 2' on all sides for a beefy frame, eventhough it is probably overkill.


Close up of the cells and spacers. I still have questions about exactly how to solder the cells together so please, if someone can take the time to explain it to me, I would appreciate it.

The frame taking shape. I am in a hurry and so have not trimmed all sides.

Close up of the corners. I am going to leave that bolt in place when I pour the resin. I don't plan on using it for mounting.

Notice what a rush will do to you when you are not carefull. One of the corners split while I was drilling it. Guess my resin will have to fill it in.

The frame almost finished. I will trim the ends off tomorrow and start to work on soldering the cells.

I still have to find out exactly how to solder the cells. My configuration will have 35 cells in series. (the piece of poly wouldn't allow for more, and I am anal about keeping things nicely lined up) Do I connect the first one's ribbon strips to the back of #2? (This would make sense to me, but I really don't want to use trail and error.
Solar cells and frame taking shape. | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by FrankG (frank@theworkshop.ca) on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 05:57:39 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.theworkshop.ca

I hope you could say where you got the raw cells... I found a supplier in Ottawa in 1999 that had 12" by 12" cells without the pig-tails that yours has, but it was a one-time deal...

Any details like cost, yield (Ratio of good to bad) etc would also be appreciated...

The frame looks quite clever...

FrankG
www.theworkshop.ca
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca frank@theworkshop.ca



Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by cr8zy1van (salsa117@hotmail.com) on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 08:29:23 AM MST
(User Info)

(I forgot in my previous update) I have about 46 useable cells, and about 7 or so were broken, and I was being very critical. You can see from my mockup pictures that the "broken" cells are still ok, only minor chips/cracks. Only 2 that were seriously broken. All & all these were a great price and arrived safely/fast. Props to Ebay seller.

[ Parent ]


Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Volvo farmer on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 06:53:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Just some comments. Are you sure that plastic you bought is not going to cut down on the light that gets to the cells? For example, a guy wanted me to build him a 36 watt panel but he gave me low-e glass to do it with. To test it, I put the low-e glass in front of a panel I had already made and watched the output drop about 20% I then put a normal piece of tempered glass in front and the output hardly dropped at all. Also, how does that plastic react to heat? Those cells probably get 150F or more in direct sunlight on a summer day.

Is that angle iron stiff enough to completely eliminate flex? If you pour plastic around the cells and something flexes down the road, those cells will certainly crack.

You solder them in series, the front of one to the back of the next one, all the way down the 36 (or 35 in your case) cell line. When you get to the end of a row, you build a little bridge out of leftover ribbon or something to go to the next row of cells.

Here's the back of one of my panels, maybe this will help you undestand the connections. My arrays are only two cells wide and I have two of them per panel.

I found it easiest to tin the pads of the cells first and then connect the ribbon. The flux of the rosin core solder helps a lot to make the solder stick to those pads.

If I could do mine all over again, I'd try really hard to find a way to laminate the cells between plastic and tempered glass, then build a sturdy frame around it. I got an old Siemens 36 watt panel out of the trash the other day that had a bullet hole or three in it. It looked to me like the cells might have been sitting on a thin layer of foam when they laminated the panel.

What sort of "pourable plastic" are you planning on using?

Volvo Farmer

May you always have success in your quest to irritate those who you despise. -Ben Goode



Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by cr8zy1van (salsa117@hotmail.com) on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 08:22:41 AM MST
(User Info)

I purchased the solar cells from ebay, paid $75 and $10 for shipping. Seller's name is custdn If you search for "3x6, solar cells" you cant miss it.

The only UV stable pourable plastic I could find is made by Smoothon. You can view all their products at http://www.smoothon.com/liqplas.htm I got a 1 pint order of their "Smooth-Cast 316UV Stable" and a gallon of "Smooth-Cast 310" (to save some money) I will be using the UV stable stuff right on the back of the panels, and then the non uv stable as re-inforcement. I plan on taking it about 1/2 inch thick, but will see how far the material gets me. Both products will stand up to a lot more heat, and the heat will actually cure the plastic, supposedly bringing out better "chemical properties". The poly sheet that I have is rated to about 190 degrees, but if that is not enough, I could go buy a sheet of lexan that is better.

The frame appears to be pretty rigid, I will take your advice and test the cells behind a piece of plastic to make sure I am not losing power.



Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by DanG on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 10:39:39 AM MST
(User Info)

Good to see another project going! Permission to dump a bunch of opinions and other stuff in here?  Okay - thanks : )

Stop.
Measure your polycarbonate sheet indoors to the nearest 1/64th inch.
Take your polycarbonate sheet outside into midday full sunshine.
Place it in square track with suns light and allow it to heat up.
Support the polycarbonate w/ dry plywood or stiff cardboard backing, it softens alot.
After 20 or 30 minutes measure the dimensions again.

I hope you take the time and post back your findings, the steel frame lengthens also but not nearly as much as the plexiglass. I think you will do best if you do not bolt the plexiglass at all, assemble array strings and seal into a coverglass-backing assembly and then set into loose fitting frame w/ small angle brackets scattered around periphery that give mechanical grip w/ small rattle room against wind but will allow 'assembly' to heave and shrink w/ temperatures.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/5/14/203536/676

"Whenever screws or bolts are used through holes drilled in the Plexiglass as for the securing of an aircraft windshield or window, consideration should be given to the expansion or contraction of the Plexiglass as effected by changes in temperature. Plexiglass expands or contracts with temperature at the rate of 1/16 inch per foot per 100 degrees F. temperature change. For example a line of holes at the top of the windshield 36 inches across using a 1/8 diameter. screw would require that the holes be 5/16 inch in diameter to take care of a temperature spread of 100 degree F.. When holes are drilled with insufficient clearance excessive strain is placed on the windshield and may cause the holes to crack out at high or low temperatures."

Also if your not using a drill bit designed for plexiglass your can use a standard angle drill bit if you flatten & dull the cutting edge so it scrapes its way through instead of biting too deep and cracking plastic.  Change cutting edge _  to |_ for the 1st 1/8th inch.

Soldering - http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/5/12/03013/2634

Remember to keep solder points as smooth and evenly low as possible - a ball of solder will act as pressure point for every vibration from here on out - the ebay 'evergreen' cells are laced w visible & invisible flaws and crystaline structures that want to snap apart more then they want to stay together. If the solder stands tall the expansion/contraction cycles of the epoxy resin over time may 'toggle' the bond into open circut. Just the weight of other cells on top during handling and assembly can cause whole 1/4 segments to snap off.

http://www.epoxyproducts.com/25points4u.html

One gallon of epoxy will fill 6.5 square feet 1/4" deep. 36 cells at 18 sq inches each equals 4.5 sq foot, with borders and spacing your're looking at 5 sq ft so you'll get about 4/10th inch coverage.

If the resin is two-part look at the specs for shrinkage - using extremly small amount of hardener and allowing 24 hours + cure time, some epoxies even by placing assembly in protected tent in sunshime get suns heat to help set it up, keep epoxy cracking down and tension down in silicon wafvers by slowest cure you can get. PV cells do not do well under tension.

If your resin has VOC's (voilatile ingrediants) it is sure to shrink.

I hope you're not planning on bonding the cells directly onto the lexan - there is too much movement and the cells will eventually be torn apart. They can stand zero flex. Using glass is advised for encapsulated planels unless you make the epoxy the top surface and have a stiff weatherproof board backing - I've seen marine buoy arrays layed up on top of 3/8" dense fiberglass board, like a circut board on steroids that has nill flex to it, so the cell surfaces are protected by a layers of epoxy built up to 1/8" or so. Easier to renew the epoxy surface every 6 months then trap marine saltwater under glass, capillary wicking will kill cells so multiple layers front and back may be the best bet, copy a design meant for worst conditions.

More reading:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/4/18/231236/457

My 50lb lot of cells - I'd decided on $1000 of storebought panels already so I spent the $1000 on raw cells. I am still working on best design for me, I'd hate to screw up dozens of panels cause I got impatient!

I'm sure I missed alot of important stuff  Gotta run now.......






Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Jeff7 (jeff7@r3m0veth!sjeff7.com) on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 10:57:28 AM MST
(User Info)

Cool, I wasn't the only one who got a lot of these suckers. :)
It is an impressive sight though.

[ Parent ]


Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by cr8zy1van (salsa117@hotmail.com) on Wed Aug 10th, 2005 at 10:37:10 AM MST
(User Info)

Thank you for all the good suggestions. I did measure the piece after sitting out for a little while (of course as soon as I put it out, Utah got cloudy and its not supposed to let up for a week) It did change its size considerably. Enough to make me doubt that it would be good material to work with. I have since gone to a local glass shop and ordered a piece of glass, but will test it as well to see if it will have any growing pains.

I read on an english board somewhere that someone (of course now I cant find the link) had his local glass shop seal his cells between 2 panes. Has anyone had any luck with this?

I really need a closed, rugged, waterproof system, because my panel will be moved about every 14 days. I will be giving it to my parents that will use it for lighting on their bus that they converted to a food-kitchen for destitute kids. A lot of times kids help my parents packup after events, but cant always be trusted to take care of fragile equipment.

[ Parent ]



Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by DanG on Wed Aug 10th, 2005 at 04:54:17 PM MST
(User Info)

I read the spec sheet on your poly encapsulant and think you are on the right track for building a single panel - I apologise that mission creep ends up costing more, there is no such thing as a cheap single PV panel.

If strangers and sundry volunteers will be handling the panel I would be permanently mounting it on the roof of the bus, with some provision to adjust south elevation from ground level. A wind gust will seek out things not tied down and test them severly - and other things will seek a PV panel out and carry it away even when there is no wind. How about an awning-rain flap mounting that is sure to be remembered and stored away before the vehicle moves?

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/2/4/222357/5564
Volvo_farmers done the double-pane-window capsule - check all his posts for details

Looking at the epoxy you chose got me thinking production line wise - a mold to form a veneer of white epoxy to bed the frame and glass in for a seamless front, then once panel upper side is inspected flawless and leak free commit to encapsulating the PV cells.

Good luck and post back!!

[ Parent ]



Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Volvo farmer on Wed Aug 10th, 2005 at 06:14:57 PM MST
(User Info)

Tempered glass, you need tempered. Is that what you ordered? Several people have reported regular glass breaking because of the heat in the sun. Tempered on special order is pricey. I got all mine for free out of old patio doors.

My panels have not been weather-tested. I believe it is quite possible I will end up with moisture between my panes of glass. Time will tell and they will not be out in the weather till next spring so I cannot reccomend my technique as of yet.

That pourable plastic stuff looks pretty neat. All commercial panel builders encapsulate the cells in something akin to what you have found. I personally try to copy success so like I said, if you can put your cells on a thin piece of fiberglass board, then sandwich a piece of tempered glass on top with 1/8"pourable plastic in the middle, I believe you will have built yourself a 20-year weatherproof panel. You do need a sturdy frame for it and that angle iron with the holes in it did not look sturdy enough to me. Ask around at window shops to see if they can make an aluminum frame for you.

Now I've built 600 watts worth of these panels, and luckilly did it pretty cheaply but you need to ask yourself... By the time you pay for tempered glass, pourable plastic, a sturdy aluminum frame, junction boxes, diodes and cells at $1.70/watt, then add all the time it takes to put this thing together... Does that add up to a savings when you can buy a 50W panel with a 20 year guarantee for $250 ($5/watt)?

Volvo Farmer

May you always have success in your quest to irritate those who you despise. -Ben Goode
[ Parent ]



Re: Solar cells and frame taking shape. (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Tom in NH (tom@altenergyweb.com) on Tue Aug 9th, 2005 at 10:28:11 PM MST
(User Info) http://altenergyweb.com

I've built 10 panels using the same cells so far. Each is a "double" panel, that is, each has two sets of 36 series-wired cells. Here are a few thoughts. As others have said, using materials with different expansion coefficients will cause problems if you attach the materials rigidly.

I have found that expansion over time causes the top ribbons (tabbing) to come loose on cells that do not have the tabbing perfectly aligned and well attached to the top solder strips. I find I've had a few panels go dead on me for two reasons. One is because of loosened tabbing. The other is because of corrosion in the solder joint between the main copper buss and the bolt that brings the power out through the back of the panel (a poor design I used on a few panels). As a result, I've had to do a little repair work resoldering the tabbing on the tops of the cells (a real pain) and redoing some of my buss bars and bolts (on the next one, I'm trying stainless steel bolts.

Bear in mind that in your setup, you're going to have expansion problems, and your panels will likely be impossible to take apart. Make sure the top tabbing is soldered down good before you seal it up.

I'm real curious to see how that perforated angle stock works out for you. I've been using 1 x 1 x 1/16 aluminum angle stock to brace the backs of my plywood base. I don't use it as a frame in an attempt to shave costs. Your material might be a little cheaper, yet be just as strong, if not stronger than what I'm using.

I'm using plexiglas that's 5/32 thick, quite a bit thinner than your material. I've cut down most of the bulging due to thermal expansion by drilling over sized holes for the screws that hold it to the plywood. The holes are just under 2x the diameter of the screws. The only way I can drill holes without cracking the plexiglas is to start with a 1/8 inch hole and then enlarge it using larger bits in 1/16 inch steps until I stop at 1/4 inch.  --Tom



Solar cells and frame taking shape. | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)
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