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Jerry's new dual rotor update.
By Jerry, Section Diaries Posted on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 05:15:09 AM MST
Got a littel more work done.

Cut the holes for the coils in the fiberglass stator wafers. The coils will be droped inplace then resen poured in and over.

This nex pix shows the magnet placement referanced to the coils.

JK TAS Jerry

Jerry's new dual rotor update. | 28 comments (28 topical)

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Jerry on Fri Jan 13, 2006 at 10:25:13 PM MST

Also had time to work on the coil bobins. I'm using nylon spacers to keep the 2 bobin discs 5/16" apart (coil and stator thickness). I could find these spacers at 5/16" long. They are 1/4" OD with a hole for a #6 screw. I had some 1" long. I chucked them up in the lathe and made a set of 4 just a hair longer than 5/16".

The slightly over thickness will be squeezed out when I compress the stator and coils in the mold.

These small diameter spacers would be a problem for thick wire but I'm using #22ga. wire.

Heres some bobin parts made of plexi under construction.

Ready to assemble.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Jerry on Fri Jan 13, 2006 at 10:34:40 PM MST

Heres a pix of the coil bobin assembled.

This is the coil winder I built one year ago for the Lowes ceramic dual rotor alt.

The Lowes ceramic where slightly larger then these small NEOs and they were a littel thicker also. I think the coils were around 300 turns each. I'm hopeing for around 200 turns per coil on this unit.

The turns counter realy helps. Wire tension is maintained by they 2 carpeted 2X4s that are pinched together. The winder also has a foot switch for quike start stop.

Thats it for now. I may wind some coils this weekend. I'll report on the turns count.

I'll try to get as many turns as space will allow?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Jerry on Fri Jan 13, 2006 at 10:50:34 PM MST

The second post in the story should have read could not find 5/16" spacers. I had to make my own on the lathe.

I think the #22 ga will handel 5 amps each coil and I'm hopeing for around 9 volts ac at each coil at around 5 mph.

This should cause some charging with all 9 coils participating. I this wire handels 5 amps then collectivly all should together will be 45 amps.

I don't think thin alt will ever go to 45 amps so the wire should be safe. This alt has the same wire as the Lowes ceramic dual rotor and the stator on that was cool to 280 watts.

Same configuration on that one to. A fullwave bridge for each coil. There will be 9 small fullwave bridges mounted to the 10x 1/4" stator support plate (real good heatsink out in the wind).

I'd like to post a scimatic of that but I'm not able to do that yey?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by para t8 on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 09:00:29 AM MST

jerry,your project is lookin good man,i went to lowse lastnight and found everything but the shaft,but i found a 12"bolt that will work fine.they asked me what i needed it for?i told them i was building a wind turbine,got some funny looks but they helped anyway.lol.when i get a cam.ill post pic.your winder is killer.i was thinkin about going ele.but for now ill be winding by hand,plus the mag.wire i got yesterday is #14 im also building a 10'footer thats going on my sister's land she lives on a hill,i picked a good site for the genn..theres a tree or two in my way,and you what that means.that #22wire is not cheap did you get it from forcefield or somewhere else? para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Jerry on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:53:29 AM MST

para t8.

I picked up a few roles of varius gage at a Ham Fest (radio amature flee market).

Lowes has some round stock in there metal hardware dept. However its most likely a soft grade and not real true.

I think you can pick up real shaft stock from farm stores and such. I think Lowes shaft material only goes up to 5/8". Thats way to small for a 10ft blade. I'd use at least one inch shaft on a 10 footer.

You'll need bigger pipe and bearings for that.

My littel dual rotor project will only have a 4ft blade.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by para t8 on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 11:44:00 AM MST

jerry,im doing two projects,one at my sisters,thats the 10'.and one here at my apartment.when i finsh this one ill work some more on the 24v.its cold outside and i don't have a shop so it will be {hopefully up by the end of the summer,still have a long way to go.but your project can be done in no time,i know,easyer siad than done,but lowes is across the street from me,and autoparts is down the road,and all i have is time.may the wind be in your blades and the sun in your panels! para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by willib on Fri Jan 13, 2006 at 10:52:39 PM MST

Jerry , is that the rotor you are gonna use , under the stator mold in the first pic.?
what is that , it looks bigger than the stator?

Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Jerry on Fri Jan 13, 2006 at 11:14:02 PM MST

Hi willib.

No thats the 10"X1/4" aluminum stator support plate. I'm using 8" discs. Theres pix of the 8" discs in my diary from a few days ago.

I'll be glueing the magnets to the 8" discs in a day or 2. The 10 aluminum disc will be a good heat sink for the rectifiers.

The Lowes ceramic alt was a 10" this unit is 8" but I'm hopeing for at least 400 watts at 30 mph. The lowes unit did 280 watts at 30 mph.

I know I'll take some heat for using this small wire. But a group of coils with small gage wire, wired in perelell can do as much power as a group of coils with big gage wire wiered in sires.

And 9 small fullwave bridges on a 10"X1/4" aluminum heatsink out in the wind can handel a bunch of amps.

At any rate I'm having fun building these slightly diferant machines. So far they seem to work very well.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by willib on Fri Jan 13, 2006 at 11:40:12 PM MST

Jerry , check out these blades from home depo .
they are 60 " in dia . what do ya think?
i'm almost positive they are not metal , maybe something else?

large pic of same blade..
http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2965/hf1160ww_1200.jpg

Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Jerry on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:57:26 AM MST

Nice through some neos in there and fly it.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by RayW on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 11:22:28 AM MST

Hi Willibur;
The twist in the blades appear to be backwards for a wind generator.
RayW

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by iFred on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 12:33:21 AM MST

Nice! I like the stepper motor driven coil winder. Nice layout on the wood form too.
Good Luck Jerry! Keep us informed

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by Jerry on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 10:59:07 AM MST

Thanks iFred.

How are your projects doing these days?

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Jerry on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:18:42 PM MST

I wound the first coil today. This coil is to check for fit and how many turns fit.

At first I wound 350 turns, whoops to big. I reduced the turns to 250. Fit is good.

Coil out of bobin.

Magnet centered on coil.

This coil measures 2.8 ohms. The equivelant perelell resistance of the 9 coils is .265 ohms.

Now wind the rest of the coils.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Experimental on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 03:24:46 PM MST

Pretty slick Jerry,
Is this all part of the same project ??
Have been gathering stuff together for my next project but the weather is slowing me down on my tower !!
If it keeps raining like it has been, I,m going to switch to building a boat !!
Happy building, and enjoyed your posts, Bill H......

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Jerry on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 07:55:44 PM MST

Hi Bill.

Yep all the same project. It will all make sence when the final asemble starts.

The stator is made of fiberglass sheets. The stuff shower stalls are made of. Its a littel over a 1/16" thick. The unfinished side is smooth and dull. The finished side (the water side) is very shiny but has littel bumps for a thick orange peel type finish.

We had a display project for a customer a couple years ago and I had a nice pile of 2ftX4FT scraps left over.

In this project I've stacked up 4 sheets. This gives a 5/16" thickness.

I glue 2 sheets together with a spray glue we use at the store for carpeting speaker enclosiers. Then I do the same with the other 2 sheets. Now I have 2 seperate double wafers.
I place the coils inplace and run the thin wires between these 2 sets. Then the hole assembly is placed on a board with holes that match the outer 9 mounting holes.

The reson is poured in and another board is screwed on the top compressing the hole thing. The coil wires stick out between the wafers.

This ends up making a very strong stator.

I'll post pix of the hole prosess as I go.

The post I did a year ago on the Lowes alt shows the complete prosess.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by hiker on Sat Jan 14, 2006 at 08:32:43 PM MST

looks great there JERRY..
should end up being a nice compact unit--and still no wind [flase alarm]..
WILD IN ALASKA
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by para t8 on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 10:03:40 AM MST

jerry,that is a great idea for a statar,and your coils look great too.i found some #22wire on line and the mainace for the apartment i live in,they have big sheets of that fiberglass stuff.i think i got just about everything now.time to assemble,i mean time to wind coils. para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by Jerry on Sun Jan 15, 2006 at 10:25:04 AM MST

Hi para 8t.

I hope your not following my leed blindly. This unit has not been tested yet.

I'm hopeing for around 400 watts max but it could be less and I don't know what cut in mph will be?

I hope it will be a useable machine but it is a small one.

Eds 8" kit is rated I think 500 watts and 750 watts peak. Then I think he furls it out of the wind.

I'm not building furling into this one.

Eds alt uses much larger magnets and wire then my alt. I think my smaller magnets will keep power low enough to keep this small gage wire from burning up. I'm also useing a 4ft blade I think Ed sugjests a 7ft for his.

A 4ft has much less power then a 7 ft so there again less risk to the small gage wire.

I purchased some 12 steel discs from Ed and that alt will have much larger magnets, 14 gage wire and hopefully an 8ft blade.

I'll finish this project first. They way my timeing goes it will be a year befor I start the larger unit.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by para t8 on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 04:24:09 PM MST

jerry,i hope you don't mind me doing the same project,its winter time here and the 10'im working on too, has been put on hold till spring or summer.so ill keep myself biss.to pass time,did i tell you im in a wheelchair thats why i have time,no job.i will weight for you to test before i do anything iam somewhat new at this but learning more every day.your project is perfect for me right now i got to do something i cant set still.ive been looking for a heatsink panel for my 10'and i think i found one,music studios through stuff like that away all the time,if i find two would you like to have one?{if you need it}.im on a fix income another set back.but i get by,buy mag.wire one month and maybe a neo.here and there.i mite get it done before i die.lol para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by Jerry on Mon Jan 16, 2006 at 11:09:43 PM MST

Hi para 8t.

I'm very happy to have someone else trying the same project here. We can share notes.

You know the old 2 heads are better then one thing. Over the years I've learned so much from this board. So many ideas presented and shared. This place is a real think tank.

My goal is to find a small dual rotor alt that matches the power curve of the Garbogen, witch is a few watts at 5 to 7 mph up to 650 watts at 30 mph while using my plastic 49" 3 blade system.

I know this littel 8" dual rotor I'm working on now won't do this but this unit will give me some needed data for the nessesary upgrades.

I also wanted to make a littel geny that other folks could copy with ease, with readely available parts from the big box home improvement store and without the need for lathe or welder.

I think this will alow people to build a small genny who otherwize maynot be able to.

So yes the more ideas the better.

Thanks for the generus offer on the heat sink. Could you desribe the heatsink? I do have plenty of that sort of thing.

If your short of some parts let me know. I like hourse trading for stuff.

Have you given any thought to the shaft size for your 10 FTer?

Sounds like now is a good time for you get get some of the alt built? Work on the stuff you can till sommer gets here?

OK para 8t get to buildin and keep us posted.

JK TAS Jerry

Airheads Page

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by para t8 on Tue Jan 17, 2006 at 02:08:24 PM MST

jerry,i found a hub and spindle that mite work fine,check it out{willib diaries}its off a caddy you can order it from autoparts.winding coils and jamin to pinkfloyd,i got one of those heat sinks i thought it was going to be a little biger but i don't think i can use it its cracked it has ridges on the back 6".i mite beable to fix it but easyer siad than done ill try but ill more or less find anouther one i hope.you siad something about horse trading,lol.the diary page is 3.para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by para t8 on Wed Jan 18, 2006 at 10:54:26 AM MST

im deprest,my freakin coil winder broke.i was so mad that puppy went in the dumbster im going down lowes and get some parts to make a better one{no wood}how is yours comin along good im sure,by the way,where are you from?im in virginia.well going to lowes now,let me know how your genn.is doing. para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by para t8 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 11:29:53 AM MST

i got some parts and starting over again,this sucks,but im not giving up,i got a cam.but its not dig.but i can get the pic.on disc download to harddrive and attach them to my comments,at least i think it will work i havent tryed it yet,we'll see.how is your project comin along?went to matnace and got the fibber statar stuff,now i need to cut, i think ill go to matnace for that.things are going slow right now,i don't understand with all the time i got,but it will get done.i need a shop,do you have a shop? para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by ghurd on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 12:12:56 PM MST

Hey PT8!

I DO know what you mean. I sit watching the phone/fax/email for hours for a real important call (that never comes) when I should be out on the job. Like now.

There are some pretty workable cameras (for this purpose) for $20-ish. Limited capacity, no card needed, just need a USB cable. My sister got a pair that double as web cams at x-mart, they look like tiny regular cameras. 640x480? but it seems like they were higher than that.
Also a lot of tekkies with the 8 and 10 megapixel cameras probably have 1MP cameras they don't really need or care about. Might be worth asking around to borrow one?

Just because it only takes an hout to do, don't expect to get it done in a week. :)
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by para t8 on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 03:37:34 PM MST

g,thanks for that post,im working on my coil winder now,and thanks for the info on the cam.ill check it out.i wound one good coil and the winder broke,i put the glue and accelerator on it,that stuff works good,do you use glue?im also working on a 10'footer,thats at my sister's house,lots to do there,i got the mag.wire#14,i think ill be doing it the three faise way,ive seen so many ways to rectify from ac to dc,i think ill use 35to40 amp.but for now ive got other things to do first,again thanks for the help.may the wind be in your blades and the sun in your panels. para t8

[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by ghurd on Thu Jan 19, 2006 at 03:57:35 PM MST

I don't glue coils in the winder. Anymore. Long story, but my fingerprints have grown back.
It would be a windy day here before a 35A gets smoked in something I made. Like CNN windy!
Right before I totally give up, something works.
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerry's new dual rotor update. (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by hvirtane on Tue Jan 17, 2006 at 05:46:51 AM MST

I also wanted to make a little genny that other folks could copy with ease, with readily available parts from the big box home improvement store and without the need for lathe or welder.

I think this will allow people to build a small genny who otherwise may not be able to.

This idea is a really good one in my opinion.

Do you remember some time ago
Chuck and others made
the wind mill frame of tube joints?
Maybe you could use a similar frame?

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/7/28/121316/288
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/8/4/11540/07579

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2003/8/16/61029/3914

- Hannu

Jerry's new dual rotor update. | 28 comments (28 topical)

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