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convert small gas engine to steam?


By iFred, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 06:53:18 AM MST
Opinions & help needed

Is there any reason why a lawnmower engine cannot be converted to run on steam? I searched the internet and found very little to nothing at all. Either I'm not asking the right question or I'm not searching correctly. Has anyone done this? I mean think about this for a minute.. slow rpm 0-800 or so, high torque, can run on any fuel source (cooking oil), 1-3 hp, a dual rotor could be attached as a generator... I look forward to any ideas, comments or links. Thank you!

P.S. anyone have pictures of those small power cleaner steamers on the inside? could it be used as a boiler substituting the heating element with flame instead? would the boiler be large enough for a small gas engine? Thanks!

convert small gas engine to steam? | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by willib (willibur at comcast dot net) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 12:22:18 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.njwind.com/webcam.html#

i was thinking about steam just the other day, and was wondering why no one uses it.
Dont you need a very large piston for a steam engine?
Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)


Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 08:09:15 AM MST
(User Info)

No you would not really have to have a large piston. Most people don't use steam I think because exploding boilers are like a bomb. Most people think of exploding boilers as soon as steam engine is mentioned. Government requires you to get permits and lisence to operate a boiler, etc...
 Most people don't have the heat to make steam unless burning a fuel, many better ways to use the feul than making steam. Steam engines are not very effieceint.

All that said, if a person has enough waste heat from some other use to run the boiler then steam is still a good option. And we have far more options today to prevent boiler explosions than back in 1920 or so when steam was popular and also exploded more often.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Gordy on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 12:32:58 AM MST
(User Info)

iFred,

I ran across a web site a couple years ago. The guy fed the steam through a home made check valve, mounted in the spark plug hole. The valve was made of standard fittings & pipe with a spring & ball bearing inside. Then drilled and tapped a hole in the piston to mount a bolt, that would open the valve when the piston got close to TDC. Timing would be ajusted by either the bolt length or moving the valve in or out.

I don't remember what he did with the regular valve timing. But I would think you would have to rework the cam to get it to turn 1:1 with the crank shaft.

Gordy



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by PaulJ on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 02:56:09 AM MST
(User Info)

   Flash steam I think? He posted comments here a while ago from (hazy) memory.

[ Parent ]


Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by whirlybird on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:33:10 AM MST
(User Info) http://whirlwindaustralia.com/

G'day Fred

Have not seen you about for a while hope you and yours are all well.

Steam Power now that's a real can of worms and I am sure all the knockers will start blathering about safety issues etc. I for one believe that in the hands of fools or the uneducated just about anything is dangerous .
Please don't let these people put you off. There are many good sites out there describing small steam plants and how to make them with safety.
Solar steam is an issue that I am pursuing at the moment.
I have been told that if you are looking for a good candidate for conversion to a steam engine then you should seek out an old Mopar Twin Cylinder Air conditioning pump used by Chrysler a few years ago. These are horizontally opposed twin cylinder and take 15 mins to turn into a steam engine.
I would like to talk to you further about this as I do believe that it is a viable idea, Unfortunately I can no longer use the Other power IRC channel any longer so you will have to email me via the addy in the header.
Good luck with your endeavours here.
Later
Whirlybird

[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 04:10:46 AM MST
(User Info)


Nice to hear from you again mate!
 Thanks for the info...

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!
[ Parent ]


Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 04:09:26 AM MST
(User Info)

http://www.flashsteam.com/Basics.htm

Why do you need to run the cam 1:1 ?

>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!
[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by nanotech (darrin(dot)moore(at)gmail(dot)com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:23:15 AM MST
(User Info)

A standard Otto cycle gasoline engine would need some modifications to be able to run on steam.

For one, the original camshaft would have to be removed and replaced with a custom desinged and fabricated one.

Remember, on a gasoline engine there are four distinct strokes, spread out over two revolutions of the crankshaft : Intake, Compression, Power, Exhaust.  Or for those that have had military training on the subject : Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow.

With steam, it is a two stroke system : Inject steam on power stroke, exhaust spent steam on the upstroke.

So to make a gasoline engine work on steam, the intake valve would no longer be used at all and the exhaust valve would have to be rigged to open on every upstroke.  I guess you could then use the exhaust lobe at a different time to activate the steam injection....

One other thing to consider is that most gasoline engines are used to having petroleum products spewing through them.  You start putting hot water through them and you're going to develop SEVERE rust fairly quickly.  You're also going to get miniscule amounts of blowby on the piston rings which will then mix with the oil.  And if you've ever had a blown head gasket, you know what happens when oil and water mix in a closed loop lubrication system!!

The best engine for conversion to steam is the Wankel rotary found in Mazda RX-7's.  You run the steam into the intake port, remove the first spark and use that as an exhaust port, then use a timing system to inject steam into the second sparkplug hole and the exhaust becomes the other exhaust port.  Then just duplicate the setup for the other rotor.  Viole'.  A double-acting, self starting, twin chambered steam turbine.  And since the rotary engine has no direct linkage between the combustion and lubrication, you don't have that worry.  And since they already use an oil injection system, lubrication of the steam areas is already supplied as well!!

The added bonus is that you can generally pick up a blown rotary engine (one that's swallowed an apex seal on one of the rotors) for peanuts and just run it on one rotor, letting the other one just spin around as an extra flywheel......
__________________________________________
My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru!



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Gog on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 03:57:42 AM MST
(User Info)

To convert a 2 stroke look here at a bash valve conversion.

http://www.firedragon.com/~kap/SteamTopics/bashvalve.html

Ive done a b&s conversion by building up another set of lobes on the cam and feeding it low pressure steam
from a pressure cooker through the inlet port .It didn't make much power but it proved the concept ( to me anyway)
The original lobes height can be ground down to reduce overlap and the new lobes have to be low and possibly abit narrower
so as not to interfere with the crank ,theres not a lot of room in there.
There might still be a thread here titled b&s steam or something like that.

Cheers

[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Kwazai (mswayze@truswood.com include otherpower in subject) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 05:41:58 AM MST
(User Info)

looks like its set up a lot like the little CO2 motors.

http://www.keveney.com/co2.html

Mike

[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 04:07:43 AM MST
(User Info)


Silly post don't work..

I thought about this a bit.. Chrome the piston, rings and sleave, no rust problems.

Remove and seal, (weld) the valves and valve ports closed. force steam into spark plug hole with a new fitting. Have two valves now on the intake to spark plug. one to release the steam and one to inject it. if one is open the other is closed.

Use lower pressure controlled steam, want low rpms and torque. think dual rotor PMG, slow around 250 to 500 rpms.
>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!
[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Gog on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 04:14:13 AM MST
(User Info)

Heres that old thread

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/4/3/181629/5577

Cheers

[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 04:18:01 AM MST
(User Info)


A steam turbine is easy to build, have already done this. The problem is the high rpm's, it's not good for using a dual rotor PMG for example. Combine this with the availbility of cooking oil, wood, oil burners, corn burners ect, anything could be used and combined with a decent size PMG would be perfect for charging batts and producing power. I mentioned a standard lawnmower engine because everyone has them lazing around. I myself have at least 5 or 6 in the back yard doing nothing but collecting rust. it's a shame to see.

 
>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Gog on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 04:39:46 AM MST
(User Info)

For simplicity the exhaust ports could be some holes drilled through the cylinder wall at BDC , unaflow like.

Cheers

[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by iFred (ifred2006@yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 05:38:27 AM MST
(User Info)

I was thinking something like this..


>> all energy used to produce this comment or post came from solar and wind energy! It works!
[ Parent ]



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Gary D on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 07:05:07 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Fred, good to see you're thinking... Would a light mix of antifreeze/coolant help stop the rusting? It would increase the boiling point some, but if used in a closed loop system, no pollution... More than likely a stupid thought/ I get them quite often!  Gary D.



Re: convert small gas engine to steam? (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Wed Jan 18th, 2006 at 08:37:40 AM MST
(User Info)

Probably the only place really needing oil would be the crank and rod bearings. Might be able to change those out to something not needing oil. Maybe sealed bearings on the crank, perhaps needle bearings on the rod with grease. Heat should not be a problem with steam like when burning gas, so mostly friction. Might even be able to just grease up the bearings really well, low rpm, less heat, less shock.

Also I am geussing steam would be a smoother less violient power than exploding gas would be, less shock.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.



convert small gas engine to steam? | 17 comments (17 topical, 0 editorial)
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