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Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free


By IntegEner, Section Classifieds
Posted on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 04:10:39 PM MST
For a Limited Time Bypass the PayPal Buttons For This 30 Page Colorful Booklet in Hard Copy

IntegEner-Wind has long had a booklet advertised on the website that details how the lift principle works using Newtonian Mechanics in aerodynamics work, for wind turbines as well as for the case of aircraft, in clear terms without some of the earlier unsatisfactory theories that have typified this subject - in the opinion of such agencies as, for example, NASA (see their website) and to which we feel some more attention is needed. It has certainly survived exposure to the Internet the last few years and discussions here on OtherPower.com have covered some of the material contained therein with general approval from those who have seen them. It seems pointless to repeat some of this detail here, again and again, and so it is being offered for free, mailing costs defrayed as well, bypassing the usual PayPal buttons normally used for purposes of ordering it. I honestly believe it is a clearer explanation than most on this subject.

An e-message would be necessary to be sent to IntegEner-W at mail@integener.com with a name and mailing address, which are to be deleted from our files upon completion of the order. We have now already a backlog of orders from wind energy observers and enthusiasts from a similar mention of this offer elsewhere. Multiple copies, within reason, may also be requested. More information about the booklet is available on the website - www.integener.com. Here are the colorful covers of the booklet:



Anthony C.
IntegEner-W
Tehachapi, CA
www.integener.com

Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free | 19 comments (19 topical)

Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by vawtman on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 03:45:06 PM MST

Anthony,Ive visited your website to see if I could find power output figures on your double bladed Newtonian vawts didnt see anything.Airfoil is one thing but power is the main thing.Posting any data you have would be great.Thanks



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by IntegEner on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 08:06:55 AM MST

An informed public is the main thing. Here in "T" town, one of the world capitols of wind energy, we see a market for decorative wind rotators in the yards of homes. These spin at one mph wind speed while the utility grade turbines up on the ridges are still. We have long been adamant about taking a softer approach to the rush to generate power at all costs and offer just something small that is kind of nice. The postings in the Diaries about "William James, etc." explains more and provides some detail on the power generated. Price information may be requested for the kit with or without the tower and generator.

Anthony C.
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by vawtman on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 10:54:34 AM MST

I didnt realize those were decorations.Every time I visit this sight im thinking power.Thus Otherpower not Otherdecorations.I dint think those thin blades could do much.Why not try building a turbine with all your airfoil knowledge.Sorry but im not interested in the booklet.Thanks for the offer.

[ Parent ]


Nasa has it for free as well and I believe them. (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by rotornuts on Fri Jan 06, 2006 at 11:01:11 PM MST

Before ordering I ask everyone to follow the links below and look for the noted tidbits.

We'll start here,

http://www.integener.com/HomeLinksAndProjs/Page01.htm

Please scroll down to the link to Nasa and the comment,"This NASA webpage puts the physical source of the aerodynamic lift force right (while other pages on this website debunk erroneous explanations)".

Next lets go to the Nasa website here,

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/newton3.html

This link speaks about "Principia Mathematica Philosophiae Naturalis"  and in particular the third law of motion and how it applies to lift. Support for Anthonies theory?

Let's go on and follow the link that is the word lift.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/right2.html

Here we see some talk about lift from flow turning or deflection as the words seem to be used interchangably. Still looking good for Anthony. There's even mention of the fact that some incorrect theories of lift come from ignoring this this reaction.

But lets go back to the top and have a look at "airplane wings" since these do after all resemble turbine blades more than spinning balls and rotating cylinders.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/factors.html

Well at a glance it seems Nasa is saying that all you need to do to create lift is turn a flow of air. Shall we investigate further or shall we rest assurred Anthony has uncovered the truth and Nasa concurrs?

What the heck lets just have a quick peek at whats behind the "wing size" link since we're allready there and Anthony has told us what shape it should be.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/size.html

Well, nice little link there. talks about drag, the lift equation and some planform stuff too but what's this about drag? I haven't heard much from Anthony on drag. An what's this about "pressure variation" back up at the top of the page. I could be mistaken but I thought the "bent" or "turned air flow theory" didn't care about pressure as it was a part of the incorrect theory of lift.

I think we better have a look.

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/presar.html

And there you have it folks. the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

And P.S. the images Anthony has posted above are taken from the Nasa web site so basicly you can find all Anthonies book has to offer and more in it's unaltered form  from a source you should be able to trust, including imagry, at the Nasa website.

Feel free to continue learning there as it really is about the most complete source of introductory and advance aerodynamics on the net!

Mike



The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by IntegEner on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 09:09:07 AM MST

It would be of use if the writer had a copy of the booklet and I look forward to mailing one off to him, upon request. The contents of the booklet is its own best answer to what is being said, somewhat misrepresented, I believe, in the above. Debates on lift theory go on forever and that, itself, becomes a problem. Many more copies of the booklet are now being printed so as to satisfy recent requests for it and I hope my interest in the details and my efforts to make a few things clear have some value. I honestly came away from these comments with the thought that they were not very critical. Flight and aviation is miraculous but one need not be an aviator to know that some differences pertain to wind energy.

Anthony C.
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Re: The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by finnsawyer on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 09:54:52 AM MST

You state that it is desirable for the public to be well informed.  Yet when your methodology is challenged by invoking known properties of air foils, windmills, Newtonian Mechanics, vectors, as well as drag, you ignore the challenges and continue blithely on like a Tsunami.  Your statements are also full of contradictions.  You state that you fell out with the lift equation, because you realized that air flow effects far from the air foil are not considered.  yet your 'celebrated' equation introduces a constant that depends on the geometry of the air foil.  Well, duh, how is that different and how does that rope in the effects far from the air foil?  Your equation also falls apart for the very range of angles where an airfoil exhibits its greatest lift.  You don't seem to realize that when proposing a new theory one cannot simply wish away that which is known from experimental data about a particular phenomenon.  One must show that the new theory either explains better what is already known or embraces what is already known and provides experimentally verifiable insights beyond what is already known.  Whenever you are challenged to do that you duck and run for cover.    
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by jimovonz on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 01:08:39 PM MST

You have a "booklet"! Why didn't you say from the start! I am much more likely to accept your theories if you have a "booklet". I have many interesting theories myself but unfortunately none have yet made it to "booklet" form.
If your goal is to enlighten us (the public) as you state, why on earth is the information in the "booklet" not freely available for direct view/download on your web site? It seems an odd way of doing things. Even more odd is the fact that you have charged for this information in the past. You are trying to gain acceptance for your ideas and charging folk for the privilege. You are pushing the idea of advanced aerodynamics yet your demonstration projects are whirligig lawn ornaments? You are selling blades for wind turbines and have no (or will not publish) power figures?
It is easy to see why you’re encountering some resistance here. Perhaps you would have been better off preaching to folk who are somewhat less informed as those here on the board.


[ Parent ]


Re: The Aerodynamic Lift Booklet of IntegEner-W (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by finnsawyer on Sun Jan 08, 2006 at 09:46:52 AM MST

You raise a fundamental question here?  why is he so bull-headed about his 'theory'?  People can become emotionally attached to their ideas and blind about the shortcomings.  There is also the issue of the investment of time and money.  If you admit you are wrong without something to replace it, the money stops coming in.  This is something that has been seen time and again over the years even for supposedly mainstream researchers as their economic welfare and reputations became dependent on erroneous points of view.

I feel that Anthony's unwillingness to address criticisms is disrespectful of the very community he is trying to reach.  I don't believe it will prove productive for him in the long run.  

I find your comment about accepting his theories because he has a 'booklet' intriguing.  I didn't realize putting something in writing had such a pull.  Perhaps I should do the same.  My philosophy was to justify my approach by building the system, but perhaps it's not necessary.  Maybe it's better to give up the possibility of patents of dubious value by widely disseminating the information at reasonable cost.  It's something to think about.
GeoM
[ Parent ]



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by vawtman on Sat Jan 07, 2006 at 04:16:41 PM MST

Here in T town,one of the world capitols of wind energy,we see a market for decorative wind rotators.WOW



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by IntegEner on Mon Jan 09, 2006 at 08:13:40 AM MST

More copies of the booklet are being printed up and are available. It is in the best interest of wind energy that something a bit more lasting and accessible than just a few links on a website be provided that addresses what, in the rush to get these machines up and running worldwide, has been largely overlooked since its inception a decade or two ago - the theorizing of how the wind interacts with the blades based on Newtonian Mechanics. It sure is possible to design and build a wind turbine without a complete understanding of how the forces on the blades are generated and what happens to the wind in the process but not an approach that is likely to satisfactorily make it over many of the hurdles that often are found during development in the long run. I am quite serious about this.

Wind energy needs a better theoretical foundation than it presently has and this booklet is just the start of something to fill this need. The many wind turbines up on the ridges here in Tehachapi certainly see periods of inactivity and the many homeowners here who have installed the small 7 foot tall Harbor Freight windmills in their yards for decorative purposes do not have any hesitation about boasting how their "wind turbines" operate so continuously. I honestly wish to answer all questions asked about some of the issues raised but find myself unable to get to the root of some of these no doubt well meaning but unnecessarily extended comments except just to offer my thanks.

It is a nice booklet and many people have copies of it. It says what has always needed to be said about the lift principle and wind energy. The public loves to learn about concepts that have always been so vague and mysterious.

Anthony Chessick
IntegEner-W
Tehachapi, CA
www.integener.com



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by IntegEner on Mon Jan 09, 2006 at 09:20:31 AM MST

Yes, and as a thought in deference to the often high level of expertise demonstrated on this list, it would be of value to repeat back to me some of what I have said earlier that is important to me. I see little recognition of my words having had any impact, such that it becomes quite discouraging for me to add to them. I will not be always available forever here to post messages ad infinitum.

Anthony Chessick
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by IntegEner on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 08:17:14 AM MST

Thanks to everyone offering comments, albeit with some of the same questions seen before. The booklet has been receiving some attention due to the curiosity it has aroused. The material not only repeats tepid statements such as "lift is the result of airflow deflection downward" but goes on the provide trigonometric formulas that apply to its quantification based on Newton's Law and covers wind energy as well.

Anthony Chessick
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by finnsawyer on Tue Jan 10, 2006 at 09:41:46 AM MST

Oh, as long as you can make money by fishing in these waters you will be back.  Let's hope people can recognize the bait for what it is, a mishmash of unproven hype.
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by IntegEner on Wed Jan 11, 2006 at 07:19:51 AM MST

The booklet provides basic trigonometric formulas that apply to the quantification of aerodynamic lift and its induced drag and, not to worry, everyone will see more of them as time unfolds. I refrain from replying here except to say that the testimonials being received from those who have seen the booklet are not quite so grumpy.

Anthony Chessick
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by vawtman on Wed Jan 11, 2006 at 06:46:00 PM MST

Anthony,I think your losing it.Take care.

[ Parent ]


Re: Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by IntegEner on Wed Jan 11, 2006 at 07:05:56 PM MST

More grumpiness.

Anthony Chessick
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Aviation Is A Miracle And NASA Its Champion (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by IntegEner on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 07:16:26 AM MST

NASA is just doing what it is supposed to do. The long held reverence for the miracle of aviation and flight, however, may now be coming to an end with the advent of wind energy and not a moment too soon. The comments on this discussion thread are surprising in the tenacity with which the technology of aerodynamics as applied to simple airfoils is interwoven with confusion and doubt, a legacy of this undue awe that evaporates with a bit of scrutiny applied to the part of it that is invisible to the eye - atmospheric air. When all is said and done this is a story that will in future years give pause as to the degree to which strongly held beliefs by the public at large can delay proper understanding of a technology.

Anthony C.
IntegEner-Wind
Tehachapi, CA
www.integener.com



Re: Aviation Is A Miracle And NASA Its Champion (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by finnsawyer on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 09:30:48 AM MST

So, why don't you enlighten us already.  Start with the basics: Force equals....
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Aviation Is A Miracle And NASA Its Champion (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by IntegEner on Sun Jan 22, 2006 at 02:05:52 PM MST

The basics start with the mundane fact that ..... air is a substance rather than the absence of a substance....., words to this effect, having taken a long time in being said, to be found in the 30 page Aerodynamic Lift booklet being offered at this time at no cost by visiting the Classifieds section of this OtherPower.com discussion list. Copies are now being put in the mail and small wind rotators that make use of blades designed using these principles are being made up as kits. We are now marketers of a product.

Anthony C.
www.integener.com

[ Parent ]



Newtonian Wind Lift Booklet For Free | 19 comments (19 topical)
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