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A Question About Changing Fields.


By WXYZCIENCE, Section Mechanical
Posted on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 at 08:54:22 PM MST
Do flux lines act like elastic force fields?

I have been testing my new 16 pole stator for the RACA. I placed the rotor inside of a 6" copper pipe. I can move up and down easily. But when I rotate it there is great resistance. This is interesting but I want to understand better. This diagram is my first attempt in this direction.

The first set of magnets show what I believe the invisible flux lines would look like, at rest and unimpeded. Do the flux lines have a a known direction? As in the electron flow of electricity, negative to positive.

The second picture shows the cross section of the copper conductors. When the coil is shorted, the flux lines now encounter the conductor and are in my thinking, stretched as the rotation starts.

If I rotate the rotor inside of the copper tube at a fixed rpm and measure the output torque against the outer tube, (Neglect the heat factor at this point.) is there a peek point that the flux will not apply any more force to the outer tube? A maximum slip point as it were.

Again, could this method be used for calculating cut in and furl points required for blade design?

Input anyone?
Joseph.
A Question About Changing Fields. | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by willib (willibur at comcast dot net) on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 at 03:23:18 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.njwind.com/webcam.html#

i'm not sure i follow what you are talking about with the copper pipe , but i have allways thought that the flux lines will travel in the path of least resistance , ie in an axial flux machine , when encountering a hole in a coil i think the flux will seek the hole rather than go through the coil , and kind of bend twards it as it is going round and round..
Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)


Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by inode buddha on Sun Oct 15th, 2006 at 06:53:11 PM MST
(User Info)

Sounds almost like a Faraday (unipolar) generator he has got there, with the rotor inside a pipe.

[ Parent ]


Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Flux on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 at 02:11:24 AM MST
(User Info)

Your flux diagrams are about right. Convention is that lines flow from N to S.

When you generate a current in a shorted conductor, the current in that conductor has a field associated with it. the two fields interact and the main field is distorted much as you draw it.

If you could spin the thing in your copper tube fast enough, the braking force would not disappear but it would reduce to a fairly constant value when the armature reaction of the circulating current over powered the magnet field.

In real life you would never see it in this case but it does occur in windings with iron cores where the armature reaction has more effect.
Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 at 12:30:49 PM MST
(User Info)

Flux, so is there then a linear change that it proportional to the speed of change in the magnetic field up to the constant value.

What then limits the speed of change in the magnetic field?

Does the magnetic field slow because the distortion causes it to travel farther to complete it's path? (like an asymmetrical wing).

Thanks for your input.

Joseph.

[ Parent ]


Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by ghurd on Mon Oct 16th, 2006 at 02:33:24 PM MST
(User Info)

I'll say the induction interferes with it.

And I'd like someone to explain how or how much. And if that's even correct!
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Baz on Sun Oct 22nd, 2006 at 03:24:17 PM MST
(User Info) http://Bee.shed@ntlworld.com

A static field produces no induced current. A changing field, due to movement of the conductor, magnet, or the field increasing/decreasing strength induces a current in a conductor. This is Faraday's Law.
The shorted turns or a copper plate which is just a continuous shorted conductor gets an induced current which forms an opposing magnetic field. Magnetic fields attract, so you have made a magnetic attraction which opposes the movement.
At slow speeds the opposing force rises proportionally until resistance to the current and magnetic saturation occurs.
This principle is used in domestic electricity meters. That rotating disc you see in your house meter is retarded in a predictable way by this means - it is a system that doesn't change with age. ( but keep your magnets away, if you weeken the meter's magnet it will spin faster !)



Re: A Question About Changing Fields. (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Oct 23rd, 2006 at 09:55:27 AM MST
(User Info)

Baz, thanks for the info. I think most of my ideas about changing magnetic fields can be answered in physics 101. Your comment on the rotating disk in the power meter is right on, the electrical company wanted to change it out to a demand type when I first bought this place. Never could figure out why just new it would cost me more. Told them no way.

Joseph

[ Parent ]


A Question About Changing Fields. | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 editorial)
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