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Single magnet 3 phase alternator


By windstuffnow, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 02:35:28 AM MST
just for fun ...

  Playing around with different configurations for a small alternator for a stirling project and this is what came to mind... a very simply single magnet 3 phase alternator.  Below shows the parts made and ready to assemble...



  Two magnet end plates drilled for 1/4" shaft cut from a couple of bolts and JB welded to the magnet.  Below shows the basic structure assembled...



  Wound 3 coils with 175 turns of #28 wire and installed them on the triangle end pieces...



  A hand shot of the completed alternator with its base on it, sort of gives you an idea of its size... 3.4 inches long and just under 2 inches wide... The coils are simply taped to each other to hold them in place...



  Its wired in star and a simple turn of the shaft produces enough electrical energy to lite 5 Led's.   An open voltage spin showed around 5 volts, and a quick spin ran it up to 10 volts.  Connecting it up to a 3 phase doubler it does 18 volts at 120ma.   Should do a nice job with the stirling.   I might put a small prop on it to see what it will do in the wind as well.

  I have another one I'm working out some details that will also use a single magnet and have almost completed a 4 pole 3 phase with a slightly odd coil installation.  Unlike my twisted coil alternator kit this one will use "bent" coils that will go all the way around the unit, both sides of the magnets.   Strange little beast... another stirling project.

  This one works well enough and is very simple to construct. I thought I would share with those interested in making some simple turbines.  You simply have to make the sides of the triangles slightly larger than the magnet width.   I used some 3/8" plastic for the triangles, 3/16" wooden dowel pins for the structure.  Plywood ends would work fine as long as its sanded so it didn't catch the wire.  No need for bearings, it runs smooth as silk in the plastic.
.

Single magnet 3 phase alternator | 18 comments (18 topical)

Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by wdyasq on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 10:00:56 PM MST

What an elegant design. Any rpm/volt guesses?

Thanks,

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sat Oct 14, 2006 at 10:24:26 PM MST

Excellent work Ed. You seem to be having as much fun as I am.

Joseph



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by vawtman on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 07:11:25 AM MST

That is real cool ED
 You could sell those has kits to schools.

 What would happen if you used steel rod instead of dowels?Coul you boost output a hair or not?



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by finnsawyer on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 09:29:58 AM MST

But isn't this really a three coil two pole design, which would put it in the class of alternators that I discuss in my diary?  If so, you should get an output with the coils connected in series, whereas if it is true three phase connecting them in series should give zero voltage.  You might try and compare the two cases.  It certainly is a clever idea, though.  My hat is off to you.
GeoM


Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by windstuffnow on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 02:31:51 PM MST

  I'll definately try it in a few different wiring combinations.   Basically a 2 pole 3 phase but the phasing is off a little in this arrangement.

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by finnsawyer on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 05:53:20 PM MST

Just another thought.  A true three phase will not have any current flowing in the coils in the delta configuration with no external load and consequently would need little applied torque.  The 3:2 design would.  In fact as you increase the RPMs with the 3:2 configuration in the delta the coils should get hotter and eventually burn out.  So trying the delta configuration should be a dead give away as to what you have.  
GeoM
[ Parent ]


Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by wayne on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 10:02:11 AM MST

Hi Ed

What a nice surprize this morning and really great work. Very clever I must say. I wonder what a larger one would do. Do it need high rpm to get 10 volts or more. Another  one to test in the cold winter.

Thanks
Wayne



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by windstuffnow on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 02:27:19 PM MST

  I was playing with it this morning, hand spinning it with the tach in the other hand and it appears to make 3.5 volts at 200 rpm.   Its kind of difficult to spin and watch both meters at once so I'm sure thats not real accurate.  It's not the best use of magnets and wire and the phasing is a bit off.

  I simply put it together and wired it in star to this point, but I'll try a couple different wiring schemes later tonight.

  I doubt it would make an efficient larger unit unless the there were multiple magnets mounted on a drum to close up the gap between the magnet and wire.  I simply needed to run several LED's driven by a small stirling engine ( haven't built it yet ).

  One idea of many, I'll use the best of the batch.

Fun little project...
.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by ghurd on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 12:47:02 PM MST

What about...
A 5-ph star version?
A Much thicker magnet? Pole face to pole face. Flux should be a lot more(?) at the coils.

Reminds me of a 'single rotor' popcorn machine.
G-
Ghurd.info



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by windstuffnow on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 02:18:15 PM MST

  It's very similar to the popcorn generator... with the exception of the shaft mounted to the magnet.  A simple single phase or even a 2 phase would be very easy to assemble using the single magnet as well...

.

Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Nando on Sun Oct 15, 2006 at 01:02:26 PM MST

This is a mono polar design ( almost mono polar)

For full bipolar the coil (both sides) that to be in line with the magnet for maximum voltage generation.

When the magnet is close to a coil side, the other side of the coil is about 60 degrees away from the opposite magnetic polarity.

60 degrees produces almost no voltage, of curse to define what voltage level that side will generate all the parameters are needed to calculate the field and its generated voltage.



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by finnsawyer on Tue Oct 17, 2006 at 08:50:11 AM MST

"This is a mono polar design ( almost mono polar)
For full bipolar the coil (both sides) that to be in line with the magnet for maximum voltage generation."

Considering that the magnet has two poles, how can you call this mono polar?  Perhaps you would like to illustrate what you mean with a diagram.  I don't understand the second statement either.  If a coil is directly centered over the north pole of the magnet as it moves, its voltage will be going through a zero crossing.  As it moves past the magnet a voltage pulse (let's say a negative one due to the decreasing flux) will be generated.  When the coil has moved ninety degrees the flux through it will be exactly zero.  As the coil moves on it begins to pass over the south pole, either continuing the original negative pulse or creating a new negative pulse.  Also, when the first coil is moving off of the north pole the second coil will be moving onto the south pole.  The third coil will be in the dead zone, where the flux through it changes only slightly. Both active coils will then be creating negative pulses which can be added.  This is the same action as the alternator design I discuss in my diary, although it may not be optimized to the same degree as my design.  I think if you follow the action for all of the coils for a single revolution you will find that you can connect the coils in series to get output.  A star connection on the other hand would result in one lead pair always having less output than the other two (you can't connect my design in star without having the voltages of two of the coils canceling rather than adding).

GeoM
[ Parent ]



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by nothing to lose on Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 03:46:15 AM MST

Great idea.
I wonder if your magnet was thicker if you would get more power. I mean if it's a 2x1x.5, would you have the clearance to place in a second mag making a 2x1x1 basically.
Would that up the output getting the poles closer to the coils but keep enough clearance on the corners?
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by wayne on Mon Oct 16, 2006 at 08:14:39 AM MST

Hi Ed

Just a quick question what is a 3 phase doubler. My quess its 2 full wave briges with caps on D.C output.

Thks
Wayne



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by alancorey on Tue Oct 17, 2006 at 11:35:21 AM MST

No.  Back in the days before there was such a wide spread fetish with bridge rectifiers, there were individual diodes.  Voltage doublers, triplers, and quadruplers use 2, 3 or 4 diodes with as many capacitors to provide rectified DC that was a multiple of the AC input voltage.  They were commonly used in cheaper tube-type TV sets to provide 300 or 450 volt B+ without a transformer.  That caused a "hot chassis" since one side of the AC line was connected directly to the chassis, so plastic knobs were needed.

They work OK, but (1) they gave half-wave rather than full-wave rectification, so the ripple frequency was 60 HZ, not 120, and (2) all the power has to flow through the capacitors, so it can require a lot of capacitance (low capacitive reactance).  At low voltages and high currents the capacitors would have to be in thousands of microfarads, not the 80 and 100 MFD caps used in tube circuits.

I wondered if these were being used in generating power.  They probably shouldn't be part of a new design, since more windings is a better alternative, but for something like making use of a stepper motor which puts out low voltage AC they're a nice Bandaid.

I don't have a circuit handy and I didn't find one quickly by Google, but they used to be in older ARRL handbooks all the time.  I don't know much about 3-phase, but I assume it would be 3 times the same circuit with the outputs tied together.

From memory: connect one side of the AC input to ground.  Put the other side to a capacitor.  Connect a diode so the cathode goes to ground and the anode to the output end of the capacitor.  Now take the second diode and connect the cathode to this junction of the capacitor and diode.  The anode of this second diode becomes the output, once you connect the second capacitor between it and ground.  This may blow up, so breadboard (with fuses) before building.  I've been more into software than solder the last 15 years or so.

  Alan

[ Parent ]



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by RobD on Wed Oct 18, 2006 at 04:52:35 PM MST

Hi Ed,

I see you're busy as usual!

Nice work. What's the Stirling going to be like?

Rob



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by windstuffnow on Wed Oct 18, 2006 at 05:32:28 PM MST

  Hi Rob, glad to see you pop in now and then.  Hows the electric car/truck project going?  I haven't had time to start on mine yet ( kick me... hard ).  Your remote tach works flawlessly thanks!  Great work as always!  I did get the one I screwed up working as well thanks to your help.

  I was going to build a small stirling for fun but with some new ideas I'm thinking of going a little bigger.   I made a bunch of pistons and matching cylinders quite some time ago and thought I'd put a couple together.   Most of them are 1" but I did make a couple 2" that I could use for this project.  I'm still gathering parts for the big one.  
.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]



Re: Single magnet 3 phase alternator (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by spinner on Thu Oct 26, 2006 at 08:43:57 AM MST

hiya ed, been awhile
NICE job, on this project, sir (as usual)

? ed...what size caps are u using in the doubler?
thanx
 spinner

[ Parent ]



Single magnet 3 phase alternator | 18 comments (18 topical)
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