Foam Form Failure
By WXYZCIENCE, Section Wind Posted on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 04:10:12 AM MST
And Wing Success!

I worked most of the day on the blue foam wing and the home wrap bag idea. For those who have been following the process you should know what this is. Yes it is one of the blue wings but 'Blue' did not give up the ghost that easy! The process goes like this; 1. Measured and bagged the wing with the home wrap. 2. Cut a length of boat cloth to cover the bagged wing. 3. Measured and placed a second bag over the wing/bag/glass. 4. Placed the wing/bag/glass/bag inside of the mold. 5. Added a measured amount of polyester resin to the wing/bag/glass/bag/mold. At this point I am waiting for the liquid to start pouring out everywhere. Nothing leaking, it is holding. Now the long wait, the unbelievably long wait. My test blob is starting to set up and I am almost starting to think this will work. I have worked with resin lots in the past and some how did not take into account the heat! The foam is an insulator. It's hot...too hot! I quickly grab the standing mold and place it up on the bench. With a couple of strokes my trusty knife peels away the outer foam form. This is what pops out. Cool and then removed the outer bag. Nice wing, just a few worm lines. I pick it up and can hear a rattle from inside it. From inside of the new fiberglass wing I find Blue, he's shriveled and not much left...but he did his job well! Here is a profile of the root end And last the profile of the tip end. The new wing weighs three pounds. Next, I will be working on a method to attach it to a hub. Joseph.

Foam Form Failure | 18 comments (18 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#1) by zap (bell47g5a at comcast dot net) on Sat Nov 18th, 2006 at 09:53:55 PM MST (User Info)

LOL... I love happy accidents!  Very nice work! zap

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#2) by Titantornado on Sat Nov 18th, 2006 at 09:55:14 PM MST (User Info)

WOW!  Looks like that it couldn't have worked out better. Insert a root adapter and yyou're set. Great job! Rod

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#3) by willib (willibur at comcast dot net) on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 01:45:53 AM MST (User Info) http://www.njwind.com/webcam.html#

Joe you have inspired me to finish the mold for my blades Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#4) by SamoaPower on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 02:23:55 AM MST (User Info)

Ah yes, the famous WXYZ lost foam process! But, I really don't understand Joe. Did I miss a post or something? How did you end up with what looks like about a 1/4" thick skin from a layer of "boat cloth". What exactly is "boat cloth"? "4. Placed the wing/bag/glass/bag inside of the mold." Where did the mold come from? Did I miss this? Is this the negative blank left over from cutting the core? "5. Added a measured amount of polyester resin to the wing/bag/glass/bag/mold." Where exactly is the resin applied? Obviously, it needs to saturate the cloth, but how did you do this when it's already bagged? How did you calculate the "measured amount"? Joe, it's clear I don't really understand your process, but I would like to. With that thick skin, you may get away without a spar. One reason I wouldn't really consider polyester resin is because it's fairly brittle and don't think it will stand up to the bending loads.

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#7) by WXYZCIENCE on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 12:43:10 PM MST (User Info)

SamoaPower, I would think about a different material if the length was over 48". The gel coat that was used to cover the wing adds the uv protection and color. Thinking of using a type of rubber mount for the hub attachment. I am going to try again later this week to see if the next two blades are as successful. I also posted an addendum in my diary with a few more pictures. Joseph. [ Parent ]

AKA sucessful failure (3.00 / 0) (#5) by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 06:04:10 AM MST (User Info)

Reminiscent of coresand designed to break down and crumble after the metal had hardened.  Fun to mold and shape things isn't it? even if it hadn't worked.  An example in my diary of vacuformed CD hub which may or may not work out in the long run but you never know until you try ...Right?  (in your shoes)         Fun in Conneaut !       ( :>) Norm. ( :>) Norm

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#6) by Vtbsr on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 11:44:11 AM MST (User Info)

Don't you have to make 2 more blades? Can you send a picture of the mold? I thought the bottom of a airfoil was flat not curved. Thanks

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#8) by WXYZCIENCE on Sun Nov 19th, 2006 at 01:01:12 PM MST (User Info)

Vtbsr, I was going to go with the flat bottom type but SamoaPower sent me a link to a pdf. Changed the profile to lower Renolds number wing. Yes, two more, or at least one. Joseph. [ Parent ]

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#9) by SparWeb (sparweb at ANTISPAM_hotmail_com) on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 at 12:31:10 AM MST (User Info)

Please forgive my previous comments based on an incorrect assumption. I'm just going to stand over here in the corner, with everyone else who didn't realize what you were doing before now, and quietly watch.   Nice blade - very Wortmann-ish... Thank you for sharing such a neat-o idea! Steven Fahey

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#10) by chinsettawong on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 at 06:24:31 AM MST (User Info)

Very nice work.  By the way, using resin with foam is not the way to go.  Resin melts foam quickly.  Have you tried using epoxy instead?  WillB once told me it would work well and will not melt your foam. Wachara C. Bangkok, Thailand

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#11) by paradigmdesign (paradigmpower_05@yahoo.com) on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 at 07:56:13 AM MST (User Info) www.goldstarpetresort.com

Yes, you can put that resin directially onto the foam coares, the stuff dosen't get very hot so you can use it without melting your core.  I have used it on the pinks stuff quite a bit.  Quick note, the spray adhesive that is used when you are glassing WILL melt most foams too. "Don't worry about tomorrow, plan for it." [ Parent ]

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#12) by paradigmdesign (paradigmpower_05@yahoo.com) on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 at 07:59:51 AM MST (User Info) www.goldstarpetresort.com

Also, what kind and how many layers of glass was used in this example? "Don't worry about tomorrow, plan for it."

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#13) by A6D9 on Mon Nov 20th, 2006 at 05:00:27 PM MST (User Info)

i think the biggest question is when do you mass produce and start selling them  ;) I know i might be interested. Thanx Darren [ Parent ]

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#14) by pickerol on Tue Nov 21st, 2006 at 06:11:58 AM MST (User Info)

Very Neeto! Here's a similar system for glassing one side at a time so a spar can be built in. The spar is essentially a fibre composite i-beam that connects with both sides of the blade; made from rolled up strips of glass...epoxied. Tom .......__o .......<, ....( )/ ( )...

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#15) by bj (jackbp996@msn.com) on Tue Nov 21st, 2006 at 05:36:34 PM MST (User Info)

Joseph--very nice.  A question, if you will, are you sure it was heat that melted the foam?  If there was any gap in the first wrap, the fumes from the Derikane would have melted the inner mould.  Heat usually just causes the Blue styro to receed from the heat, with a glazed coating.  However, the fumes given off by the curing process, would eat the blue back to it's original styreen base.  Not a big deal, since the outcome was a success, but I am curious, as you have motivated me into building a set of blades, instead of buying some.      thanks  bj thanks all bj

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#16) by badmoonryzn (badmoonryzn) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 08:16:59 AM MST (User Info) Too much work too little time

I was surprised at the cost of the different types of cloths. I did all of my experiments with glass and once I was satisfied with my abilities The cost of the resins and cloths were expensive and I tried to build a few glider wings but I ran into trouble as I did not have decent molds and the wings were unusable, but these molds really look good. I stopped the wings because of the cost of Kevlar/graphite was preventative, but smaller simple shapes were easier and came out 25% lighter and strong enough to take some impressive crashes without breaking. I made all of my wing supports out of 1/8 inch flat stock and I never broke one. I use to break the glass and abs ones every week or two. I did not test these with any reliable methods, but there performance was nothing short of awesome. I look forward to trying again. I am having trouble making wood ones that suit me, and frankly I would feel better using stronger materials. Keep up the good work Joe. Badmoon I just wanna have some fun, maybe learn something new every day and make some friends in the process.

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#17) by Legion99999 (bgpaintball@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 22nd, 2006 at 02:29:08 PM MST (User Info) www.bgpaintball.net

I never get tired of your posts, you come up with so much great stuff and free info, I build my first minigen off of your web page. Thanks for the info and keep up the great work!! By the time you have read this, you will have already read it.

Re: Foam Form Failure (3.00 / 0) (#18) by WXYZCIENCE on Thu Nov 23rd, 2006 at 11:56:51 AM MST (User Info)

Hey L9, thanks for the shot in the arm. LOL. Joseph. [ Parent ]

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