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more progress on the 10 ftr
By halfcrazy, Section Diaries Posted on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 12:27:20 AM MST
made a little progress on the 10ftr

made a little more progress today got the magnets glued to the rotors.

got my blades from dan and scott the other day now gotta round up some epoxy. i have been reading some of you are using a west systems epoxy? is that the right name? where do you get it? thanks for the time and hopefully i will get this thing done soon.

more progress on the 10 ftr | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Shadow on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 07:45:21 PM MST

Looking good so far! I'm not sure where you get the 'West system', I've heard its better but I've used regular poly fibreglass resin on two turbines and I've had good results. You may want to compare prices and keep in mind if this is your first time building, using less expensive components can justify making a few mistakes as we all do.After you've got some experience building then go to higher quality materials.I know some will jump all over this theory of mine, but looking back I used more, copper wire, more resin, more wood both for tail and blades,more paint and alot more time building the first one than I did the second one.
I wound all my coils and put them in the mould, then got rotors ready,I've never glued none of my magnets down, I could see them sliding outward but not lifting, and once resin is poured they cant go sideways.On my first one I had a lip machined in around the outside, but on the next one I just used a bead of JB weld across the ends of each one.(put the rotors far apart and make sure they are perfectly level) then mixed resin up for stator and rotors all at once. Only have to put up with the smell once that way.Hope this helps, Good luck and have fun!

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by RayW on Sun Feb 05, 2006 at 08:08:11 PM MST

Most marine or boat supply stores have West Systems epoxy.
RayW

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by halfcrazy on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 04:20:06 AM MST

thanks guys i found it at a online marine store it is a little more then what i was quated for regular epoxy at the auto parts maybe 20 bucks a gallon more but seemes worth it hopefully the rotors could be reused if i total botch everything else.

[ Parent ]

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Experimental on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 09:45:54 AM MST

Hey Halfcrazy,
The West systems epoxy, is my favorite for building props and would work well for your stator, as epoxy will take more heat than polyester --BUT, I have had problems makeing West systems stick to metal -- it is actually formulated for wood and i would really suggest you use a polyester of the automotive type, used on metal, for your magnet rotors !!!
Almost any auto supply will carry the isothallic polyester, recommended for steel bonding (cheeper too!) Even some of the marine resins, don,t bond well on steel !!
I may have just had some contamination on the metal I used west on -- but sure don,t want to see you have any problems on your rotors !!
Happy building, Bill H.........

[ Parent ]

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Experimental on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 10:41:14 AM MST

Halfcrazy and all others,
I called Gougeon brothers, who are the manufactures of West Systems epoxys -- and I should have done that, before I made my last comment !!
As I have recommended West systems many times here, I wanted to be sure I was giving the right info !!
There tech department, tells me that there product should bond better than the automotive polyesters, and if I had a problem with it -- it was probably from contamination on the metal ....
They recommend however, that wiping with a good cleaner and then sanding the surface with 50 grit paper, before bonding, is the best practice, and of course, that makes sense !!
As I mentioned above, I,m always concerned with the recommendations I make, and just wanted to be sure I wasen,t leading you and others astray -- SO, the problem I encountered with West system, was probably of my own doing and now I can further recommend a great product to the members of this forum and now you can use it with added confidence!!!
Hope this info, is helpful, Bill H...........

[ Parent ]

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by glassman on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 11:23:16 AM MST

when you are bonding with epoxies ( i say epoxies here because polyesters make lousy glues next to epoxies )remember this, its a mechanical bond not a chemical bond (like solvent weld with plastics) so the rougher the surface the better (hence the 50 grit sandpaper) this gives it something to "lock" onto and a good wipe to remove any contaminates is a must, also it takes a bit for a good bond ,you won't get near as strong a bond with a 5 min epoxy as with a slower. mix, mix, mix, it takes about 2-3 min. of mixing to properly mix a tray of epoxy (or polyester). stay in the temp range of the manufacturer. you can warm the bottle of epoxy in a tray of hot or warm water if needed, this will lower the viscosity also and allow it to flow into all those nice crevices you made with the sandpaper.
DO NOT mess with the part "a" part "b" ratio like you would with polyester.
by the way i believe jb weld is epoxy with powdered metal added (used to be anyway)
bondo is polyester with microballons or something similar (used to be talc) .
one other difference is that epoxy is absorbed thru the skin so wear gloves .
remember saftey starts with s but begins with u !

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by halfcrazy on Mon Feb 06, 2006 at 06:01:34 PM MST

the online supplier i use emailed me back and the west systems has a hazmat fee they have a MAS systems that doesnt anyone heard of it?

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by ghurd on Tue Feb 07, 2006 at 06:56:31 AM MST

I think all epoxy based compounds are haz-mat.
The epoxy stuff I use for potting, both parts are labeled 'corrosive', $10 hazmat fee per box.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by glassman on Wed Feb 15, 2006 at 02:51:08 PM MST

I have bought from several epoxy places over the past 30 years , i remember two of them , west systems , and jeffco, west is maybe set up more for the back yard user than jeffco but its possible they dont have a extra fee ? I always got good info from both sources and would recommend a look at the web site and then , before you order call and talk to a real person . I have no affilation with either one . type jeffco epoxy into google and you will come up with the website.
let us know how it turns out .
daryl

[ Parent ]

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Frank06 on Wed Feb 08, 2006 at 09:29:22 AM MST

You should be able to find West Systems at a marine supply store - not sure if you have EBS in your part of the state, but they carry it around here. They also sell fillers which offer a lot more strength, at least when using with wood. FWIW, cotton fibres are stronger and don't go with the silicon! They can make it pretty hard to pour though. I like the idea of fibreglas strands or mat for tensile strength; not sure exactly what I'll do when I pour mine but probably will add some sort of strengthening material.

Epoxies form an amine "blush" (at least I think that's what it's called) which should be sanded prior to painting or gluing other stuff to it. As far as bonding to metal, I've used it to glue metal to fibreglass on an old corvette w/o problems; the key is a rough surface and clean prior to bonding using denatured alcohol, acetone, etc.

good luck!
Frank

Re: more progress on the 10 ftr (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by ibeweagle on Sat Jan 17, 2009 at 01:36:27 PM MST

have new design uses 16 magnets per rotor same magnets and 12 foot dim turbine rotor works great better than other power called other better power haha ibeweagle@hotmail.com

more progress on the 10 ftr | 11 comments (11 topical)

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