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Pivoting Turbine Tower?


By domeguy, Section Wind
Posted on Wed Apr 19, 2006 at 03:36:18 AM MST
bad site for a conventional type tilt-up tower

Last year I bought a DanB turbine as well as some more solar panels. The combination has pretty much forced me into building a power shed in a place that is OK for wind power and solar, but not so good for any other structure (no shade and too much wind!). Unfortunately, it's not so good for a tower either - it's just not very flat. To make use of the normal tilt-up type tower, it would have to be raised and lowered with only one side guy. I've been toying with the idea of a fixed gin pole planted in the ground and then pivoting the 40 foot tower over the top of the gin pole. I've sketched it out in OOdraw and saved it as a pdf. It looks like I can't show a pdf here? If you know how to look at it, feel free.

The gin pole would be a rather large diameter 20 foot long schedule 40 pipe (like well casing) that is sunk and anchored as deep as possible in the very rocky ground in that spot. I was also thinking I could use four permanent guys from the top of the gin pole to keep it solid. The main difficulty this idea presents, I think, is that the tower head will be partially inverted when it's lowered. I don't want it to fall off! So some sort of retainer would have to be added to the turbine and tower top. A big advantage is that it should be much easier to raise and lower.

Is this a really bad idea?

-Lee

Pivoting Turbine Tower? | 8 comments (8 topical)

Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by commanda on Tue Apr 18, 2006 at 09:41:48 PM MST

pivoting_wind_turbine.pdf



Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by electrak on Wed Apr 19, 2006 at 08:45:44 AM MST

use two pipes in the ground and pin though all three at the top
    [  
    [
___________
     --------------------------[------------------------------  tower
_
__________   poles
    [                          [
    [
Ground                          pin
level

not a good drawing and sideways, but you get the idea

[ Parent ]



Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by domeguy on Wed Apr 19, 2006 at 10:23:41 AM MST

Thanks for the suggestion, electrak.  I had thought of that concept earlier - it requires a much larger hole in my very hard ground.

[ Parent ]


Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by domeguy on Wed Apr 19, 2006 at 10:30:13 AM MST

Looking over my post I see that I left out some key components:

I plan to have two sets of mating plates between the gin pole and the tower so that 8 large bolts would rigidly hold the tower to the gin pole while erect.

I plan to use four guys to hold the top of the tower stationary while erect.  I'm thinking the the guys at the top of the gin pole will hold the middle.

I just realized that I could run a wire rope down the tower along with the power cable so the turbine won't slide off of the tower while it's lowered.

-Lee

[ Parent ]



Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by eformx on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 10:50:35 PM MST

I have a site with rock everywhere, very difficult to anchor let alone dig a hole and then fill it with cement.  I have been thinking of using 50 gallon plastic drums (available from farmers/restaurants, they typically have canola oil in them) for about $10 cdn each.  When filled with water they are 500 pounds each.  You drill a hole on either side of them, near the top of the drum.  Stuff a pipe across the width of the drum, then feed the guy wire through the pipe to act as the anchor.  Place 4 drums (as described above) in the best strategic points (or more).  Fill with water giving you at least 2,000 lbs of weight.  This setup would take care of the anchors without having to tap into the rock and if you ever need to move the system just drain the barrels.

You could take a few more drums.  Drill a hole on either side of a drum, do the same for 4 barrels. Get a ladder, say a 30 footer (about $150 cdn).  Slide a 10 foot pipe through two barrels then through U clamps attached to the ladder (the tower) and slide the pipe through the other 2 barrels. The pipe through the barrels and ladder is the pivot.

Fill the 4 barrels holding the pivot in place with water, giving you an additional 2,000 lbs of weight (your tower is now supported by 4,000 lbs of water). You fabricate a gin pole out of 10' pipe attached to the ladder with U clamps.  Your wind turbine is attached to the top of the ladder with pipe and more U clamps.

Attach a winch to the gin pole or use some kind of motorized vehicle to pull the gin pole lifting the tower or should I say ladder :-)

I am working on putting up a tower as described above.

Thoughts?



Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by commanda on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 02:34:20 AM MST

Water evaporates. Also, I'm sure 500 lbs sounds a lot, but a decent wind will throw it around like it was a piece of paper. Also, as it starts to exert force, it will tip the bucket over, pouring out that 500 lbs of water.

With all that rock, can you dyna-bolt (or similar) into it?

Amanda

[ Parent ]



Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by TomW on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 07:58:56 AM MST

eformx;

Well, I would not trust plastic barrels or water in this use. First, I doubt that the barrels will hold up to the pull rigged as you describe. Second, constant motion will certainly chafe a hole in the barrels allowing your weight to drain away. Drilling some holes in the rock and epoxying in some eyebolts or rebar loops will be cheap and long term effective.

I think you are over emphasizing the difficulty of anchoring to rock. Consider a conservative value of $500 for your tower / mill / prop, etc. Are you willing to risk its destruction to save a $25 drill bit and $30 in epoxy? These values are just guesses but likely close enough. I seriously doubt a ladder will hold up to being shaken and hammered by thrust forces from a mill. Most are just too light for that type loading. They are designed for force down on the rungs and even using most like a scaffold plank would overload them. Bad idea, IMHO.

Just the view from here. First use proven methods and once you figure that out try your other ideas.

Cheers.

TomW

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it


[ Parent ]



Re: Pivoting Turbine Tower? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by domeguy on Mon May 01, 2006 at 12:06:29 PM MST

I'm going to reply to the last three here:

Thanks for the responses.

I think I agree with Amanda and TomW about the water barrels / ladder arrangement.  I want this installation to be more or less permanent.  Last year I bought a fairly cheap 1" rotary hammer from Harbor Freight.  It doesn't have any trouble drilling holes in the granite of my hill.  To anchor the guys I've been thinking of using long Red Head anchor bolts into the rock, then a couple of rather thick stainless plates having two holes each.  One hole goes over the anchor bolt and the other gets one end of a turn buckle for a guy cable.

Since I posted this, I've had an excavator attemp to dig a hole for the fixed gin pole.  He was only able to get about 3.5 feet into the ground, through some "decomposed" granite with a little dirt on it.  I think that isn't deep enough to self support; that's why each guy anchor gets two guys.  When I raise and lower, I'll undo only the guys for the tower top.  I'm expecting the strength of the schedule 40 pipe to be enough to support itself and the turbine as it goes up and down.  It will be pivoting at about 17' up the 40' tower.  I'll lower it in the direction of higher ground, so it won't need to come all the way down; it might even be level.

-Lee

[ Parent ]



Pivoting Turbine Tower? | 8 comments (8 topical)
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