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Steam Turbine 100 watts
By WXYZCIENCE, Section Mechanical Posted on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 08:12:45 PM MST
Blade design

The blank is 1/2" SS 306 pictured here being machined.

The first cuts are alternated to produce more accurate balance. Cutting speed is 400 rpm.

This next picture shows the first blade is almost finished it's rough cut.

The depth is set by the bed, I chose 1/4" for my blade depth. This next picture is of the mirror blade's rough cut.

The indexer is made from the gears you find in a small lawn tractor transmission.The two blades are shown here together, the edges are very sharp and much care is used in handling them.

The next picture is the rear view of the finished unit connected to an old motorbike alternator. The reduction is aprox. 5:1 and the unit produces 100 watts.

The cover is removed to expose the turbine's front view.

The steam is injected through the 1/4" copper tube. The system is a closed loop, and the turbine operates at 12000 RPM. The efficiency is only 12%, but the unit cogenerates and the waste heat is used for heating. This is my first working unit. Joe

Steam Turbine 100 watts | 29 comments (29 topical)

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by hvirtane on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 02:57:43 PM MST

Really nice.

How did you make the blade design?

What about your boiler?
Did you make it yourself?

- Hannu

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:22:07 PM MST

Hannu, The 4 1/2" circle cutter produces the cut and the height of the disk that I am cutting gives me the angle of attack. By experiment I found the angle that worked good for me. My boiler is a fire tube type and will hold 75 Psi through a 1/2" tube. This unit runs at 40 Psi and the temp is aprox 260 deg. F. I have designed it around this pressure. My efficiency suffers but it is a safer operating pressure. Joe

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 05:06:29 PM MST

This is the guts to my SS steam boiler, the unit was tested to 300 psi. The max operating pressure is 125psi set by the safety relief valve.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by Nowhere man on Sat Apr 29, 2006 at 08:05:27 PM MST

I am looking for somthing like this Solar or used veg oil Sorry I am Dave I posted a diary some time ago cave living. Alot of you guys made good coments . I like the idea of safe steam. I do have sun MAYBE wind. i did not get the bit of dirt I was out bid/bidded. Still lookin but there are lots of bits of dirt out there just need cheep like the birds or is that free? "like the birds"! My wife thinks I am a nutter too, my mother love's me lol.

But back to the point Used oil boiler Ok wind and sun are very clean!!!"we have lots of sun" WE NEED CLEAN!!! Anyone know about waist gas filtration?? OK used veg oil is supposed to be green as carbon = in/out the same. Can nbot spell nutrel =. have a huge supply of used oil here I live in tenerife spain/africa But I am from yorkshire England we like to spend less money than the scotish lol. Less Out is better for our grandchildren carbon not money!
Best ideas and site. i talk to much. I have size 12 feet and i want to leave no foot print OK TOO MUCH WINE!
All good stuff
"If there is a fine line between Geneus and insanity. WHERE CAN I GET A STRAITJACKET ???" Me "I know I am a dreamer but I am not the only one" John Lennon.
[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by MelTx on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:05:36 PM MST

That is a very cleaver way to turn a lathe into a milling machine...With an imaganation like that You could probably make almost anything...A+
MelTx

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Infinity Steel on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 03:46:10 PM MST

Very ingenious way to machine the turbine blades. And 11% or so is not bad efficiency for a one bladed unit. Have you considered adding another set of input and exhaust ports at 90% to the others, to see if you can improve it any?

Even the large mutlti stage turbines used in commercial steam plants only get about 36% efficiency. And I mean,places like nuclear plants. Have you checked out the Tesla turbine/pump design by any chance? It takes advantage of boundary layer moleculor adhesion/surface tension. I found it very interesting- and it seemed to be just the thing for modern laser cutting manufacture. Basically, the thing uses layers of stacked 20 gage stainless disks. Supposed to achieve up to 70% efficiency.

I'm considering this design for hydro and steam generation from boilers myself. That, and some cast iron of aluminum housings-should be a way to mass produce a dozen or so to set the ranch up right.

Here's a little blurb I found on it:

http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/Devices/TeslaTurbine/

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 05:44:13 PM MST

Infinty, I use a convergence nozzle and have tested a second nozzle at 90 deg. Steam expands as it leaves the tiny nozzle which is less than 1/16" in diameter. My BHP (Boiler Horse Power) is not sufficient to maintain two nozzles at the required pressure. It is like the gas engine in your car, you can run her down the road full out but you only use maybe 1/4 of it's power. Efficiency goes down, fuel consumption goes up. This is exactly the same reason I run my boiler at 1/4 it's maximum output. Tesla's bladeless design is what I think you are talking about. Heat expansion of the disks is the problem with this design. Modern materials have to some degree stopped the warping. I have tried Tesla's design with limited success. Joe.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Infinity Steel on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 08:54:38 PM MST

I can see how the thin stainless plates would lose thier efficiency as the distances between them changed with heat. And more spacers would defeat the surface tension..What modern materials do you think could prevent this?

Perhaps using molded high strength ceramics,rather than metal, for the disks?

The design ideas seem good-but he didn't have the stuff we do when he first made up the unit. I thought of this as a hydro unit as well, but then dismissed it as too high a manitanence..All of those slits would clog up with algae and silt pretty fast.

You'd be shutting it down and cleaning it constantly. A Pellon wheel would have much less problem with that.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by thefinis on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 08:23:57 PM MST

Here is another link from the board on Tesla turbine building

http://phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/home.htm
Texas born and bred
[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by hvirtane on Sat Apr 22, 2006 at 05:25:06 PM MST

Ever tried to run your machine
using solar energy with a big
parabolic mirror?

- Hannu

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by FrankG on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 05:05:41 AM MST

Very Impresive!!!

As to the 125PSI pressure relief valve, is it Home-Brew or scavanged from a typical air compressor rig?

If a regular air compressor relief valve could be reliabley used for steam, I'd be more apt to consider experimenting in that area, but my fear is that there may be heat related issues that would either degrade or jam the relief valve.

Any info would be appreciated.
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca frank@theworkshop.ca

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by pyrocasto on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 07:39:49 AM MST

This is the type of stuff I like to see. I'm getting ready to start a 10' concentrator dish and I havent figured out what kinda engine I want to use. I was going to use tesla's but we'll see. Stainless steel disks and such will run quite a bill.

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 09:39:25 AM MST

I anticipated this question so I have a picture of a steam pressure valve.

#1 RULE: All Boilers Must Have a Proper Certified Pressure Relief Valve.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by pyrocasto on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 11:19:58 AM MST

One boiler I've got a video of is like a 55 gallon size boiler, with a top held on by valve springs. If the pressure go to high the lid lifted up some to let out the excess.

Pretty nice cheap solution for the right situation.

Soon I have to start playing with closed loop models see if I can get it to work. You have to use a high pressure pump right?

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by nothing to lose on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:07:59 PM MST

Yes, many ways to build a very safe and reliable saftey valve. Seems if a person could build a working steam engine and a boiler to power it, then they should be able to build a simple spring loaded valve to release pressure. As extra safety use more than one safety valve in case the first one sticks closed when needed.

I never could figure out why people talk about steam boiler explosions being so dangerous and worry so much, and then they only use one saftey valve.

Yes a boiler explosion is VERY BAD, so use more than one valve, anything can fail sometime no matter how well built or designed.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (1.00 / 1) (#16)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 12:26:40 PM MST

A fuse plug is the second safety. Most boiler makers a very tight lipped. The boiler code book is worth $10,900.00 USD. Last time I checked. Joe.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by nothing to lose on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 10:07:34 PM MST

"A fuse plug is the second safety"

You mean something like a soft spot designed to blow before the rest of the unit incase the valve don't open when it should?
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by elvin1949 on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:17:30 AM MST

NTL
Check your puessure cooker in the kitchen.
It has a weight to regulate pressure and a plug
that will melt and blow out if it stick's
to keep the pressure from getting to high.
later
elvin

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by nothing to lose on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 02:25:19 PM MST

That's what I thought.

Don't have a pressure cooker. Well I do have a couple, but they been modified.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by elvin1949 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 08:52:05 PM MST

NTL
they make good still's don't they.
later
elvin

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by nothing to lose on Sun Apr 30, 2006 at 02:39:22 AM MST

That's what I heard :)

For the alky fuel I was doing many things for testing. Too many unknowns to make drinkable stuff though, which is illegal and I would not do such nasty things of course myself :)

My presure cookers are old used aluminum ones, might be ok for fuel use only stuff in the future. I would not use them for anything else though.
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.
[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (1.00 / 1) (#20)
by WXYZCIENCE on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 11:36:00 AM MST

We had a entire chicken dinner exit through that little hole once. It is set to 30psi.Joe.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by TomW on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 01:17:43 PM MST

Joe;

An entire chicken dinner, wow. I thought my batch of beans was bizarre exiting whole thru that tiny opening, making a turn past the cupboard doors and plastering the contents of the cupboard with mostly cooked beans.

Weird stuff.

T

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by oztules on Tue Apr 25, 2006 at 04:36:50 PM MST

Exciting times cooking in your kitchen....beans and hot air I've heard something about that. Makes flying mosfets seem tame somehow.......

Maybe an apron and a flack jacket next time;)

..........oztules

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by elvin1949 on Fri Apr 28, 2006 at 08:50:36 PM MST

I strained a pot roast through one a few yr's back.
later
elvin

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (1.00 / 1) (#18)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Apr 24, 2006 at 10:15:52 PM MST

Yes you know, something like a frost plug.Joe.

[ Parent ]

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by dinges on Sun Apr 23, 2006 at 12:36:48 PM MST

Did you notice this at Gary's website?

http://builditsolar.com/Experimental/RSB/RSB.htm

Solar boiler with amazingly high output. Product of Dutch engineering ingenuity <blush>. Might be an idea for the production of steam, though I don't know whether output and pressure would be big enough.

Peter.

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by freshair on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 03:41:34 PM MST

Very nice WXYZ,
Really like that indexer. Did you key or dowel your blade to the indexer gear? Or just rely on the tension of the bolt?

Re: Steam Turbine 100 watts (1.00 / 1) (#25)
by WXYZCIENCE on Wed Apr 26, 2006 at 05:45:41 PM MST

Freshair, There are three 10-32 counter sunk machine screws attaching the blank to the large gear. Here is a backside view of the first picture. I use my outside jaws to grab the gear this way I get better precision. I use the three holes to bolt the two blades together and to the hub.

Thanks for your input.

[ Parent ]

Steam Turbine 100 watts | 29 comments (29 topical)

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