Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted
By richhagen, Section Reviews Posted on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 08:00:07 PM MST
Claims that they interfere with military radar

While aside from maybe WindyKnight, most of us don't have massive wind turbines, so this probably would have no immediate direct effect on us.  This is probably of interest to most of us so I posted it here.  I'll Summarize below (because I don't know if the link will last forever) and provide the link to the original stories in the Chicago Tribune.     The Federal Government in the U.S. has issued orders stopping construction on several large scale wind turbine projects claiming that they may interfere with military radar.  This includes the largest planned farm here in Illinois, which was to have provided wind power for up to 120000 homes in the Chicago Area.  I live there and would much rather use wind power when I can. The thing that I find interesting is that if the reasoning is that they interfere with military radar here, then wouldn't that also be the case in many of the locations where you want to operate those types of systems.  Wouldn't it be better to learn how to operate in a 'real world' environment.  Many countries now have Wind Farms, so wouldn't you have the same problems if you were trying to operate there.  Better to fix, or learn how to use the systems in that type of environment.  At any rate I would think it would in the long term be a much bigger threat to my country not to have enough energy sources, so it is not, in my opinion, an exceptable reason to stop most major wind projects in the country.  At any rate, it may be just an excuse related to some powerful not in my backyard folks near cape cod as alluded to in the articles.  They want to stop a wind farm there because they are concerned that, although far off on the horizon, they might be visible on clear days and spoil their views.  The haze from all the fossil fuels on still hot summer days is what spoils mine and 8 million or so other folks in my metropolitan area.  Rich I am posting a link here to a story in the Chicago Tribune. If you are looking at this way in the future from when it was posted, they may not work. The story about the halting of construction: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-060530wind,1,2959649.story http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0605310078may31,1,7557291.story Responses from local politicians: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/wisconsin/chi-ap-wi-windfarms-radar,1,7584248.story http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0606030222jun03,1,3376760.story

Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#1) by ElSenator on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 03:04:43 PM MST

You must be a member. After the first story, it told me I must logon.

BugMeNot (3.00 / 0) (#2) by wdyasq on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 04:09:09 PM MST

Try here: http://www.bugmenot.com/ Ron Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen [ Parent ]

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#3) by Don Cackleberrycreations on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 04:32:14 PM MST

Ok heres one of the reasons  if you look at this dopler radar of Ks you will notice theres a nice little green blip 1/4 off the oklahoma and colorado lines  in the south west corner . That is a large wind farm  , look closely and you'll notice another  east of wichita and just south of 400 highway . yet another wind farm . http://weather.cod.edu/analysis/loops/radmaster.pl?Kansas Now I am definately not saying its a bad thing . To play devils advocate though consider the butterfly effect of the chaos theory. if a butterfly leaving a leafin australia can cause a huricane just think what a large mill can cause. of course if you follow that method of thinking better not blow out candles on your next Bday cake. ( shoot for some of us we better not light that many candles to start with or it will cause global warming ) poor unedekated redneck with attitude

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#4) by Titantornado on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 07:15:21 PM MST

Yes, those stationary radar blips are a real threat.  Who knows, they could be indications of hovering enemy jets just waiting to pounce if the radar operator should blink. Rod

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#5) by dinges on Sat Jun 03, 2006 at 10:11:22 PM MST

The rotating turbine would probably cause quite a bit of scattering and reflection of the radar signal. But even with a turbine that's not moving (windless), the tower & contraption on top of it should produce a nice blip. If windturbines are a problem, how about high-voltage distribution wires and their towers? They should make nice lines on the operator's screen. Or, I guess someone has just given the Russians a new anti-radar idea; mount a windturbine on the aircraft... Static blips can be totally filtered out by the radar software. There are so many radar systems (doppler, continuous, and some that I forgot) that have very different characteristics. If one system is plagued by a particular problem, the other is immune to it, etc. I think someone is trying to think up reasons to stop windturbines from being erected. The high-tech version of 'dead-bird syndrome', so to speak. Peter.

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#6) by nanotech on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 10:58:46 AM MST

I agree.   I was a radar tech in the navy (ok, I was actually a Fire Control Technician, but I specialised in radars and FC computers).  Yes, rotating propellers like a helicopter's were annoying to doppler radar.  Pulsed radar (air traffic control and air traffic detection) were not bothered by it at all.  Neither was phased array. And currently the only commercial use for doppler radar is weather. So unless some terrorist is thinnking up ways to mess with the weather, wind turbines are NO threat to aircraft detection at all.  Someone's playing the "dead bird" card on this one...... __________________________________________ My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru! [ Parent ]

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#7) by Don Cackleberrycreations on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 06:01:37 PM MST

Agreed I was just playing devils advocate , notice you have to get just the right wave length for them to show up. I too spent time watching the radar screens  in the navy , logged many a friendly cloud . and Got wrote up for telling an admiral if there was a missle on my screen Id sound the arlarm grab a life jacket and get off the ship ( this was before R2D2 with hardon was installed ) poor unedekated redneck with attitude [ Parent ]

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#8) by nanotech on Sun Jun 04, 2006 at 06:48:33 PM MST

Heh, sounds like my comment to the EW's!! "If you see Seasparrow and CIWS go full auto, you know I've picked up an inbound hostile.  I'll be on the O4 lvl aft kicking one of the liferafts over the side and doing a flying swan dive!!" I was on the USS Roanoke, fast attack fleet oiler.  We would've made a BIG boom had we got hit!!  :) __________________________________________ My ship finally came in, but it was the Kobayashi Maru! [ Parent ]

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#9) by Slingshot on Mon Jun 05, 2006 at 02:59:31 PM MST

This is just the latest skirmish in an ongoing battle between the wealthy Kennedy clan and those who would install a wind farm within view of their compound on Cape Cod.  He's an avowed environmentalist, but not in his own back yard :)

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#10) by Dave B on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 12:41:41 AM MST

When the "dead birds" don't cause enough controversy  now it's time to play on our fears. Wind tubines could cause a threat to our National Security. There, that ought to do it. Who would be threatened  by a self sufficient, non-poluting source of energy anyway ? Sounds a bit like terrorism to me. Dave B. [ Parent ]

Re: Several Wind Turbine Projects Halted (3.00 / 0) (#11) by JF on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 09:00:50 AM MST

Dear Mr Richhagen and other friends News just arrived online from "REFOCUS magazine" from Elsvier Scientific - concerning a new research program in the UK - concerning this issue http.//www.sparksdata.co.uk/refocus/redesign/showdoc.asp?doid=31788272&accnum=1 With greetings and best wishes to all - JF

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· http://www .chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-060530wind,1,2959649.story · http://www .chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0605310078may31,1,7557291.story · http://www .chicagotribune.com/news/local/wisconsin/chi-ap-wi-windfarms-radar,1,7584248.story · http://www .chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0606030222jun03,1,3376760.story · Also by richhagen