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Induction motor magnet question


By Devo, Section Mechanical
Posted on Wed Jun 07, 2006 at 09:38:35 PM MST
none

1st question I have picked up an old (& I mean old) lathe for playing. I have turned down the rotor on a 1/2 HP 120 volt 1725 rpm motor.

The motor has  4 coils over another set of 4 coils(looks like 2 phase 4 coils per phase).

I can fit up to 8 #29 curved neos on the rotor. I see many posts on people using 6 is this because 8 will cog to much? I was going to use the stock windings just looking on input on which is better for this coil arrangement.

any input?

2nd question anyone on the board have information on how I can adjust a 3 jaw chuck on an older lathe to get it dead centre with a couple of dial indicators? It is out a bit & if I can I would like to get it really close for other stuff.

I can post a picture of the lathe & the chuck if it helps.

Devo

Induction motor magnet question | 9 comments (9 topical)

Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by zubbly on Wed Jun 07, 2006 at 04:05:41 PM MST

hi Devo!

your rpm indicates your number of poles you have. it is a 4 pole machine. you have 4 run winding coil sets (the heavier looking wire) and 4 start winding coil sets (the thinner looking wire. usually, the run winding is on the outer diam and the start is the inner diam winding.

you say you can fit 8 mags on the rotor. not sure if you mean 2 of them end to end  with the same polarity facing up, 2 beside each other with the same polarity facing up, or 8 of them equaly spaced around the rotor with alternating polaritys.

for a 1/2 hp, i would use them as end to end with same polarity facing up. you likely with have to offset the 2 to try and beat the cogging issue.

hope this helps,
zubbly



Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Flux on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 01:15:31 AM MST

Devo

For an old machine, a 4 jaw chuck is far more versatile, but if you want to do accurate work with an old 3 jaw chuck there is a trick that model engineers often use.

Skim the register of the chuck so that it is slack and open the holes in the back plate so they have a little clearance. Put your bar in the chuck with the mounting bolts just slightly loose and you can tap the body of the chuck with a hide hammer until it runs true, then tighten the bolts and re-check.

If the bolts are tight it will not move unless you do something very silly, it will take normal cuts and never move.

If you are lucky then it may stay true over a fair range of diameters. If the scrolls and jaws are very badly worn you may have to adjust it for other diameters.

If it is a chuck without a back plate you will not be able to do this. Sometimes it is possible to expand the jaws against a ring to keep them tight and grind the jaws but it doesn't always work as the jaws are held on the other face of the scroll, depends where it is worn.

Simpler to keep it for rough work and find a 4 jaw for accurate stuff.
Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by ruddycrazy on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 01:18:25 AM MST

Hiya Devo,
          For your second question on the 3 jaw chuck, if the jaws aren't too worn then you can easily re-true the chuck but if they are wornout don't even bother with the following suggestion. Take the backplate of the 3 jaw chuck and then place some 1-1/2" diameter brightbar in the 3 jaw so about 12" points out the back of the chuck. Then hold the 3 jaw chuck in a 4 jaw and set it up so the brightbar is running totally true. Then skim the recess that locates the 3 jaw to the backplate to true it up. Then you'll have to either machine a new locating step if you have spare material or just make another backplate. Now after this depending on how badly the scroll on the 3 jaw chuck is will depend on the accuracy on other diameters. This is a bit of work to do so try it or go out and buy another chuck as 3 jaws aren't that expensive.

Hope this helps Bryan



Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by oztules on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 01:40:47 AM MST

On an old production lathe I once had, I used a large bearing in the chuck( as far back as I could get it usefully, and with a tungsten carbide tip, machine the jaws to round. Try what Flux said first..... if you are unable to do that, then you have nothing to lose.

The draw back with this is that any case hardening on the jaw will be destroyed, the smallest  size you can hold is now larger, and you will then also have to machine out the small inner bit that the bearing was sitting in, and overcut it by a few thou. If you used a large bearing, a boring bar can do this with the bearing now in the front of the jaws

Without the case hardening, any work that slips in the jaws will destroy the "true" surface, and so will need to be remachined each time you wreck it.... your really only putting off the inevitable, but it's certainly true for a time.

The advantage is that now the case hardening has been gotten rid of, you have a soft jaw chuck, and can (using the same technique) re-machine it whenever you need.

If you use an outer ring (instead of an inner bearing) so that you machine the whole jaw in one action, then the scroll will need to be true, or you will have achieved little.

Caution, the engineer that tought me reckons I'm only a Blacksmith.

..............oztules





Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Devo on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 06:10:09 PM MST

Zubbly thanks for the input , the motor is exactly as you described the 2 windings one thinner then the other. I can fit 8 mags around the rotor going n/s/n/s/n/s/n/s

north being across from north & south across from south with about 1 round toothpick of space between mags. Does that make sense?

or I could go 6 the same pattern , I would think this would have less out put but be better for cogging? Not 100% sure

As for the lathe it also  came with a 4 jaw chuck as well it is quite a bit bigger but I could change it if they are more accurate.

Thanks for all the input.

Devo



Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Countryboy on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 08:35:55 PM MST

Hi Devo,
  Chuck a piece of round bar stock in the chuck.  Place a dial indicator on the bar stock, and spin the chuck by hand to see how far out it is running.

  Add pieces of shim stock between the jaws and the bar stock until you get it running true.  With a paint marker, write on each jaw how many thousands of shim is needed for that jaw, so you can quickly shim up any future parts quickly.  (A strip of duct tape will temporarily hold shims in place, but will need retaped occasionally.)

  If you are chucking up on a machined surface, you should always use a copper or brass shim to prevent the jaws from damaging the machined surface anyway, so adding a little more shim material should be that much of a bother.

  A 4 jaw chuck is more precise, because you can adjust each jaw.  A 3 jaw chuck is designed for convenience - it gets you close real fast.

  When I use a 3 jaw chuck, I'm satisfied if I can get a part running within .002 or .003 away from being true.  With a 4 jaw chuck, I try to get a part running within .0005, and have been known to run things running <.0001 runout.

  If you're using this lathe for production, and using it regularly, I'd recommend you fix it right.  If this lathe is just going to be the occasional weekend warrior, I'd just ship up the jaws.



Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Countryboy on Thu Jun 08, 2006 at 08:37:32 PM MST

Edit that to 'shim' up the jaws for occasional use, not ship.

[ Parent ]


Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by drdongle on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:22:54 AM MST

Check out www.lathermaster.com for replacement chucks at great prices.

Carpe Vigor, Dr.D


Re: Induction motor magnet question (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by drdongle on Fri Jun 09, 2006 at 05:24:03 AM MST

Sorry www.lathemaster.com
Carpe Vigor, Dr.D


Induction motor magnet question | 9 comments (9 topical)
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