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Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today


By zubbly, Section Homebrewed Electricity
Posted on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 08:26:20 PM MST
testing with heating elements

hi all!

between the new job and not much wind lately, it has taken 2 weeks to get some testing done.
the weather man said 15kph winds this morning. i think it was more like 15-20kph winds ( 9-12.5mph )

i had lots of elements to work with, but ended up using just one of the elements out of the 6 that are in the 18kw 208 volt 3 phase duct heater insert i have. i rectified the output from the genny to the element. the genny will start on its own with 2 or 3 elements connected in series, but can barely move with just the one element connected to the rectifier. i allowed the genny to come up to approx 100 rpm then connected the element.

the one element measures 12.2 ohm resistance.
the genny measures 2 ohm resistance in the 1 circuit star conection.
it was designed for 240 volt output at 600 rpm 3 phase (12 pole)

the prop is 12 foot diam, designed from alton moore's blade program entered as a 2 blader tsr_7. 3 blades were made and mounted. it starts in almost unnoticable wind.

here is a pic of the portable rectifier assembly i use for testing.


these are different elements that i connected in star, and the picture after that are 3 elements connected in series. each of these elements are 2.2 kw at 208 volt. they were not used for the final testing today though.





this is the element bank i will be using for heating. it is 18kw, 208 volt, 3 phase. it has 6 elements and was originally connected 2 circuit deltal. the elements can all be connected individually. most of the testing today was done with just one element powered from my rectifier assembly.


with all the fluctuating going on, it was hard to try and right down the numbers from all meters. i simply lined up the meters from left to right and took pictures to get the readings. the meters are from left to right, frequency meter, dc volt, and amperage using 1 foot of #10 lead wire as a shunt.

240 rpm, 92.6 volt, 7.5 amp 695 watt


247 rpm, 99.8 volt, 8 amp 798 watt


196 rpm, 76.8 volt, 6.1 amp 468 watt


i also used to fly a 1.5 or 2hp 180 volt dc motor as a genny. i connected the output from the rectifier to the motor at 0 rpm and watched the motor climb in speed. it went well over 200 volt and prop was doing well over 600 rpm. i laughed to myself as the rpm of the motor increased in step with the voltage from the genny.

now the genny seems to be working fine, but i am not sure about the prop. i did this knowing that a 12 foot diam prop will likely be small for the genny. there is a slight bounce to the top guy cables, but seems to disappear after about 100 rpm. i am sure it is resonating somehow with the tower. the total balance over the rpm seems to also be good. i did not observe any furling throughout the testing.

i can make a ok genny and prop, but my mind does not do the best when it comes to looking at the overall performance of the whole unit. higher wind testing when time and weather allows will give a clearer picture of what i have here.

any analytical thoughts at this point from the very experienced would be greatly appreciated.

hope you enjoyed the update!
zubbly

Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today | 16 comments (16 topical)

Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by zubbly on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 02:31:45 PM MST

i forgot to mention that in stronger winds i will be able to parallel additional elements and increase wattage output. i also need to further test connecting elements in 3 phase patterns and not use DC but AC direct.

lastly, apparently Hugh Piggot has a schematic some place for the automatic adding or subtration of elements.  anyone know where this is?

zubbly



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Gary D on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 02:47:52 PM MST

hi Zubbly, perhaps this is the link you need? Not sure how it will work on high voltage tho, perhaps someone could help there? Gary D.
http://www.scoraigwind.com/circuits/index.htm

[ Parent ]


Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Ian823478 on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 02:43:49 PM MST

Zubbly
Impressive stuff! As a beginner I'm afraid I can't offer any useful comments but just a question which I'm sure will be answered elsewhere if I knew where to look. If I've understood correctly you used a 2 blade design based on using 2 blades but fitted 3 blades. Why was this? As an aside, on my screen the pics of the meters haven't come out- is this something to do with having dots in the file name?
Cheers
Ian



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Flux on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:29:32 PM MST

Nice idea to read all the meters at once, shall have to remember that one.

Output figures seem reasonable for wind speeds around 15 mph. Should get some nice power above 20 mph.

If you got 600 rpm on fairly low load ( motor running light) then you may have had a bit low resistance for optimum matching with that wind, but you will not have been far off the peak power.

Without building Mosfet/IGBT pwm control, you will probably have to stick to switching ac loads with electronic relays, triacs or back to back thyristors.

You should be able to adapt Hugh's circuit, using speed (frequency)as the switching reference. I would think that 3 steps would get you near enough if you choose the load resistors wisely. The prop will tolerate a fair bit of change in tsr and still perform adequately.

You could also try feeding your ac load via capacitors. The correct series capacitors may increase the power out from the alternator if you can get it to cancel the inductive reactance. Not practical with low volt machines but the capacitor values may be reasonable with your high voltage.

To some extent the capacitive reactance will reduce load in lower winds, I have no idea how well it will track but you may get away with one optimised load fed by suitable capacitors and just one other stage of load switching.

I suspect that the capacitor values will still be rather high and unless you have a lot of motor run capacitors going spare it may not be viable. My guess is that you will need 500uf per phase at least.
Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by zubbly on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 06:07:25 PM MST

hi Flux!

thanks for your comments and ideas. i will likely try the relay method as this is what i am used to trying to work with.

the motor run capacitors are obtainable for me and i will likely try that route.

thanks again!

zubbly

[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by willib on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:25:21 PM MST

using a two blade design gives you a blade with slightly larger chord length  at every point along the blade.

Great work there Mr Zubbly :)



Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)
[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by SamoaPower on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 09:14:11 PM MST

Slightly larger? I don't think I could call 50% slight.

Not a good idea if you want to obtain a certain TSR.

[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by zubbly on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:57:28 PM MST

hi Ian!

you are correct. i entered all the info into the blade calculator as a 2 blade prop, but made 3 blades. our dear friend Bobn, who is now deceased, suggested i try this as a way to tweak a little more out of a prop. so far it seems good but more future testing will tell the full story. basically, i have no problem with trying something new or an idea which seems to hold promise.

when i first posted, i did something wrong with the pictures. one of field lines behind the scenes people was kind enough to correct it for me.  you should now be able to view all the pics.

zubbly

[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by vawtman on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:01:46 PM MST

Zubbly i had the same resonation problem with the 5hp you could here it through the rotor into the blades.Its amazing how such a small motor jumping the airgaps can do.
It was only 4pl.
 Like you when things get to speed things smooth.

 Its hard to size these

 I think Flux would be our best help but not sure if he ever flew one.

 Im working on controls to let the turbine speed up before things engage.

 Im sure youll figure things out and have fun doing it.



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Nando on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:04:34 PM MST

Zubbly:

Can you connect directly with me ?.

Please, Correct the Anti-spam errors in my email address in the heading of my message

Nando



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by vawtman on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 04:18:55 PM MST

Nando,Why not share your ideas with the rest of us?I thought thats what this sight was for.Hmmm

[ Parent ]


Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Nando on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 05:18:04 PM MST

The site is for public share of ideas, how do you know if my request to connect privately with Zubbly was for ideas for public sharing?.

There are times that a communication by one of the members needs to be private.

Nando


[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by zubbly on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 06:03:06 PM MST

hey Nando!

i entered your email as this.  nando37.@comcast.net      is this correct?

i'm not the most intelligent internet guy out here.

zubbly

[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Nando on Mon Aug 07, 2006 at 06:22:03 PM MST

remove the dot after 37

Nando

[ Parent ]



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by nothing to lose on Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 05:37:56 AM MST

Wow great work again Zubbly.
I guess you will really cut those heating bills this year when that winter wind starts howling eh.

I'll be going back and looking over the posts again for this build, it's been great and I love the tower posts too.

 
.
nothing to lose

Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.



Re: Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Gary D on Thu Aug 17, 2006 at 08:55:33 AM MST

Hi Zubbly, Dan B. has a post today 8-17-2006 that shows the available wind power of different diameter machines at 2 mph increments from 2 to 26 mph. If you would/could lower your top voltage/ speed needs, with a larger diameter bladeset, you could harvest quite a bit more watts. This is most likely going into no man's land being so far back, but with your wire options quickly changeable, and multiple series/parallel options, it might be worth a look (after current testing). Have fun,  Gary D.



Started Testing Of The 7.5HP Conversion Today | 16 comments (16 topical)
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