Go to Otherpower.com Home Page Go to Forcefield Shopping Cart Go to Wondermagnet.com Home Page
Front Page - [Homebrewed Electricity-- (wind) (solar) (hydro) (steam) (controls) (storage) (mechanical)] - Classifieds - Site News
Everything - Newbies - [Remote Living-- (housing) (heat) (light) (water)] - Reviews - Diaries - Our Products
Magnet Area Question


By Devo, Section Newbies
Posted on Fri Feb 23, 2007 at 06:51:12 PM MST
A question about Area  

I am looking at getting some magnets. A 2 inch disc magnet 1/2" thick has aprox 78 pounds pulling force. A 1 inch disc X 1/2" thick  has half of that but I can by for 1/4 of the cost. If I put them side by side will this give me the same amount of power?

Also I can get a 2 inch round 1 inch thick with 170 pounds pulling force for way less than double the price of the 2 inch X 1/2". When I test dual rotor assemblies I get about twice the power by going with the dual rotor. Would using magnets with twice the pulling force allow me to get the same power using one rotor?

Just figured I would save myself the time & money trying to find these answers if someone already has...

Been real wind lately. seeing lots of amps through the old 11 foot dual rotor....

Thanks  

Devo

Magnet Area Question | 4 comments (4 topical)

Re: Magnet Area Question (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Flux on Fri Feb 23, 2007 at 12:33:56 PM MST

Unless you are fishing for something lost in a lake forget about pulling power.

2" x 1/2 has 4 times the area of 1" x 1/2 so you would get nowhere near with two of the 1" diameter.

If you can get 2" dia x 1" at less than twice the price of the 2" dia x 1/2" then it is better value.  If you intend to use half of the 2 x 1 to replace the 2 x 1/2's then you will end up with a single rotor and rotating disc with no magnets, it will almost certainly have more leakage than the true dual rotor so you may need a few more for the same performance.

If you intend to use the same number then the 2 x 1 will give close on 4 times the power of 2 x 1/2 if you space them a little wider to avoid extra leakage and use a thicker stator.

Flux



Re: Magnet Area Question (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by s4w2099 on Fri Feb 23, 2007 at 07:47:44 PM MST

But wait a sec. Doesnt the pulling force directly tranlate to the magnetic flux strength?

Voltage is a function of the field strength (B) so the more pulling power the more voltage output?

Having that in mind N40s will produce N50s or am I wrong. Please enlighten us.

[ Parent ]



Re: Magnet Area Question (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Flux on Sat Feb 24, 2007 at 01:26:49 AM MST

Pulling force is very complex and depends on the flux distribution in the region between the magnet and the steel plate that it is attracting.

Even with magnets of the same diameter and different length the leakage flux pattern will be different. The only case where pulling force might be remotely useful is with identical sized magnets of different grade.

For this sort of work, just forget pulling force. Neo characteristics are known and you can deduce all you want from the dimensions and grade.

The total flux that determines voltage is Phi and is B x A where A is the magnet area.

B depends on the rememant Br, which is directly related to the grade of neo and the ratio of air gap length to total magnet length. Br is typically 1.2T depending on the grade. When the air gap length is equal to the total magnet length Bgap should be about .6T but will be less due to leakage flux. With wider gaps the leakage increases rapidly. With gaps less than total magnet length the value of Bgap is linear  so if the air gap is 1/4 magnet length then the Bgap will be half way between .6 and 1.2T

Summing up, Total flux in the air gap depends on the magnet area and the length of air gap. With round magnets doubling the diameter gives 4 times the area. Doubling the length will let you work with an air gap twice as wide for the same flux, giving you room for wire of twice diameter and 1/4 resistance.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Magnet Area Question (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by JW on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 06:22:32 PM MST

Right on Flux!!!

 I was shoping for metal detectors back in 1996. The rule of thumb I learn't, was you cant detect deeper than the width of the search coil... 'Br is typically 1.2T depending on the grade'.

  Im just trying to figure out, how Lenz works into all this. The detectors would detect both ferrous(sp?) and non-ferrous, at the same distance/depth but, with each having different tones.

Cheers Flux...

JW

[ Parent ]



Magnet Area Question | 4 comments (4 topical)
Display: Sort:
Menu
· create account
· How to use the board
· FAQs
· search the board
· Google search the board

Login
Make a new account
Username:
Password:

Total Views
  74 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

Related Links
· magnet
· Also by Devo

Powered by Scoop
You must be a registered user to post here. It's easy and free, and the link is on the upper right side of your page.
All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective companies. Postings are owned by the poster, but may be deleted or moved at the ADMIN's sole discretion. The Rest © 2009 Forcefield.
You can Email the board ADMIN here. PLEASE include the username you signed up with!