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Transporting 48 volt Dc


By Shadow, Section Controls
Posted on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 04:25:47 AM MST
How far is to far?

My 48 volt battery bank/power shed is 50 feet from my electrical panel in the basement. So I'm considering mounting my Outback 3648 inverter, Morningstar TS-60 controller,Tri-metric and Mate all in the basement close to electrical panel. Then bringing in the 48 volts via 2/0 cable. Is this to far to run DC ?
          Also my dump load, (A 100 gal. tank with DC water heat elements) is close by too.Otherwise I'm looking at running AC wiring for the inverter, along with wires for dump load,controllers and mate. Any other reasons the Inverter, controllers etc need to be near the battery bank?
    Any comments or thoughts on this welcome..
Transporting 48 volt Dc | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by RP on Mon Feb 05, 2007 at 11:08:23 PM MST

How many amps will be passed through cable at 48v?  I'm not familiar with the inverter and I wonder how much dumping current you can expect from your power source.



Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Flux on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 02:23:54 AM MST

I suspect you will need to mount the inverter close to the battery bank, I can't see it managing 50 ft.

50 ft from the turbine to the battery would be no issue at all. Maybe you can bring the batteries close to the basement.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by phil b on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 07:04:12 AM MST

Shadow,
Here are some on line voltage calculators.
Neat!

http://nooutage.com/vdrop.htm

http://www.southwire.com/voltagedropcalculator.jsp



Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by craig110 on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 07:07:34 AM MST

There really is no such thing as "to far to run DC."  (Well, unless you end up with zero volts at the remote end, I presume. ;-)  The better question to ask is "how much line loss am I willing to suffer?"  Some people are happy with 3% loss in the line; others prefer much less or even are willing to live with much more.  Here is a good page that I use to calculate what the loss would be for a certain setup:

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

(Scroll way down as the voltage drop calculator is at the bottom of the long page.)  Just using 25A as an example, a 48v 50ft run of 2/0 only loses .2v, or 0.42%.  You'd have to be pushing 60A to even lose 1%, so I'd be happy using your setup.  Actually, it is similar to mine.  The best place for my charge controller is about 40-45 feet away from the batteries, so I ran 3/0 Al to keep the losses low.  (As an aside, the guy in Home Depot asked what I was using the huge wire for and I had a very interesting time trying to convince him that using a wire rated for 175A made sense when I was only pushing 25A.)



Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Flux on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 08:06:22 AM MST

Not so much about how much loss you are prepared to tolerate, it is mainly a problem of the inverter shutting down on low volts. If the cables are big enough you can do it, but the cables will most likely have to be much bigger than worry about loss alone would indicate.

50 ft at 48V may not be impossible but depends on the inverter low volt cut off setting and the current it draws.
Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by craig110 on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 01:50:18 PM MST

True, Flux.  I should have added that while my charge controller is 40-45 feet away from the inverter, the battery bank is only about 1 foot away from the inverter.  I misread the base post and missed that his batteries would also be 50 feet away.  That would indeed likely be a problem unless it is a small inverter that doesn't draw much current.

[ Parent ]


Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Nando on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 11:09:19 AM MST

Shadow:

You said :
>along with wires for dump load,controllers and mate.

What is mate ?.

The Logical placement of the equipment is close to each other to reduce high current losses.

The battery bank should be close to the DC/AC Inverter, and the charge controller.

If the battery is wind mill charged, it is logical to have the cabling going to the battery bank as close as possible and in this case, it seems best to extend the cabling to the NEW battery site.

One should have the equipment close to the electrical panel, logical and lower losses over all, and easier for trouble shooting if necessary.

Do isolate the battery bank if a lot of energy cycles daily, and what some have done is just a plastic casing with a fan to remove any possible hydrogen built up.

The isolation is a hood covering the whole bank with the small fan sucking the air out, and some of the builds have used the current detection to trigger the fan to operate at certain current level.

Nando



Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Shadow on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 11:48:11 AM MST

The Outback mate is used to keep track of the 'current' situation.Its also required to get the Inverter up and running and Set.
  I see in the Outback manual for this inverter they recommend 2/0 cable for runs under 10 feet only.So I guess I'll mount everything in the battery shed and run AC to the Electrical panel.I'm already planning a larger battery shed that will house the generator and everything related, to get built this summer. So I wont be burying anything just quite yet.

[ Parent ]


Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Volvo farmer on Tue Feb 06, 2007 at 07:33:54 PM MST

I'm in exactly the same situation. I decided to only run AC to the house and keep the inverter close to the batteries. Even at a 6' run, I used 4/0 cable from inverter to batteries but my system is 24V. Maybe before I'm done here, I'm going to make a little 12V system for the house for things like the laptop and such.

I think I know exactly what your problem is, because I have been contemplating the same. If you're going to dump a bunch of excess power off a wind turbine, it is much better to be able to heat the space you're actually living in right? The way I did my system, it's impossible using a C40 or equivalent. I'll be heating a shed 50' away from my house.

Everything logical points to keeping the batteries close to the inverter. Have you priced 2/0 wire lately?  One thing to think about... When I visited Dan a few years ago he had an interesting setup where the AUX terminals off his inverter energized a relay and he actually dumped 120V off the inverter into a regular 120V drugstore style space heater. I don't know exactly how he was doing it but it seemed maybe you could use a system like this to get heat into your living space at 120VAC and at lower line losses than 48VDC.

 

Volvo Farmer




Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by ghurd on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 06:21:22 AM MST

Maybe even a cheap second inverter with a remote. Hack the remote to a controller.
When the battery is full, the inverter and house heater come on.
Quick thoughts are it would not be very hard to do.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]


Re: Transporting 48 volt Dc (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by ghurd on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 06:24:52 AM MST

Maybe a 220V 50Hz inverter. Shipping from Europe may be cheaper than heavier wire, depending on distances.
G-
Ghurd.info
[ Parent ]


Transporting 48 volt Dc | 11 comments (11 topical)
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