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Motorcycle windmill


By willib, Section Mechanical
Posted on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 02:45:50 PM MST
using available parts and no machining

i've had this hub hanging around for over a year and just recently discovered what i can do with it.

have a look !


some of you motorcycle people may recognize the hub.

It is a front wheel hub of a motorcycle Dual rotor Front disk brakes , and spins so true and smooth its unbelievable!

the axle is 3/4" threaded rod ( lightly filed to make it fit), because the origional axle shaft is 17mm just slightly less than 3/4".

one problem the tools i used to get this together
kidding ,,, all i  used was two files to get to this point !!
a round one and a flat one. the round one i used to file the aluminum hub to make room for the rotor spokes. the flat one i used to file the 3/4" threaded rod down to 17mm so the hub bearngs would fit..

its so simple its unbelievable.

i knew if i turned the rotors around that i could get them closer together. that was a no brainer.
 but until i looked at jerrys bearing and windmills , and thought some more , then it hit me , plus i had the 3/4" shaft allready mounted in the bicycle hub.i turned it around so the filed part went inside the bearing (hub).

and bolted the other end as you see it. i also installed some plastic as a stator mount, which is bolted between two 3/4-10 nuts.

The powers that be smiled on me that day.lol

Plus the pattern of the bolt holes can easily be transferred , thats what i've been using on my blade hub and also on the minigen 1 & 2 ,moreso on number two than # one.

the bolt pattern has  5/16" holes so all ya got to do is center it( on what you want to put the pattern on) on the rotor and drill six spotting holes, take it off and finish drilling .

as a bonus the pattern can be used to make the blade hub as i did on mini gen II

so thats it
you have a way to hook an awesome pair of rotors to a fixed point ,and have them run true as heck  the stator holder has in fact moved when testing ,but thats no big deal just bolt it to whatever you are going to mount it on.

Testing coils:

my favorite part, yall are gonna love this..
i have a coil that i wound a long long time ago .its 1.5"dia by .75 " thick , not ideal , could be a tad more on the dia.

made with 0.045"dia wire close to 17 gauge. thats the coil in there now (in the photos) , it puts out 6V ac at 280 rpm as measured with the new meter. one coil !

now i know Flux is gonna love this ,but i had to try it , i then connected the coil to the ammeter and read 6A ac rms at 180 rpm , the voltage across the coil terminals during the amp test was 1.5V ac.
6 amps from one coil , i was amazed.

My plans for it:

The alternator :
is a 24 pole 18 coil beast with 48 7/8"dia by 1" neos , well not eighteen coils yet .

The rotors :
are 10.8"dia just large enough to fit all the mags correctly with the right amount of spacing.

The stator :
is gonna be awesome , some of ya may remember that i made a coil a long time ago , of 23 turns of #10 wire.
with the gap i have on there now of 0.95" i've figured that i can get at least 48 turns , ( 8 turns thick), by 1.75"dia , slightly less.

i may need some help deciding how many turns to use , in my recent notes using the 23 turn coil i got .71V at 60HZ , 300rpm.

BUT in my notes from before , (when i first wound the coil ) i was getting 1.5V at 227 rpm , the difference is the gap is larger now than it was... but if i fill the gap with wire (48 turns) will come to a .848" thick stator. this may be too many turns , i'm not sure...?

all i know is i think i'm making an arc welder here.because the phase resistance will be somewhere around 70 milli ohms.for six coils, 140 mOhms line to line resistance wired star or wye.
delta will be even less

below is a close up of the hub rotor and coil



close up rear



another front view



farther away rear view


Motorcycle windmill | 15 comments (15 topical)

Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by willib on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:09:23 AM MST

Plus if i was to put the bearings back in the bicycle hub the whole stator could rotate freely allowing torque measurements on the stator, with a spring scale.


Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)


Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Flux on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:11:49 AM MST

Bit of a leap from toys to that brute.

From a rough guess that monster bunch of magnets will handle 12 to 14ft blades, but your spindle is not going to support much bigger than 6ft so you may have something of a stall problem.

You would have got more than 6A from the coil if the ammeter didn't drop .75v.

Your air gap is ok at 1" but you could have gone wider to advantage, but not an issue with your mechanical limitations.

Unless you can do something with the spindle you might more economically leave a significant number of magnets out.

Flux



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by willib on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:28:08 AM MST

agreed on the spindle , but the origional axle which is hardened steel would work ?
although i cut it in half a long time ago , to use it on my first three phase machine , remember that one, eighteen coils #20 wire single rotor from a 7 1/2" saw blade , for a while i had it hooked up to the excercize bike,
anyway the origional axle is history , but i had fun with it , if anyone has a 17mm axle they would like to sell ...? please let me know..


Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)
[ Parent ]


Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by disaray1 on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 10:11:08 AM MST

Willib! where are you located?  I have a couple of stainless shafts about the right size laying around I'd be willing to donate towards the project.

 Nice work BTW...

 David

[ Parent ]



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by jmk on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 06:52:54 AM MST

 It would be neat to see what it would do with a six foot rotor and a wide air gap. You may not even need to have it furl? We need to invent a centrifugal clutch that closes the air gap in higher winds just a bit and opens in light winds. It wouldn't fit the kiss idea but would work great on something like this.
jmk
[ Parent ]


Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by ghurd on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:32:31 AM MST

I love it.  Too bad it's blades are too big!
G-
Ghurd.info


Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by zapmk on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:08:42 AM MST

Hey Willib,

Assembling the beast must have been a real chore.

Any flux leakage from such huge mag's on the backside ?

I have a few yammerhammer rotors laying around, Might have to try one.

Keep em coming.
Your ideas are allways interesting.

 -Zapmk



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by s4w2099 on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 09:59:43 AM MST

Yeah, I was thinking about leakage because the magnets are so thick and the disks are so thin.

What would be a good relationship of disk thickness to magnet thickness/size?

[ Parent ]



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by willib on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 07:39:05 PM MST

there is a little leakage , not much, a pair of nail clippers will stick , but they will also fall off if not postitioned properly
the rotors are .235" thick , and nice steel

i found the whole front  wheel at the curb , the hub ,two rotors ,rim and axle.
the spokes came off the rim easily with a small adjustable wrench
as nice as these are i still drool at the sight of Dans & Eds rotors.


Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)
[ Parent ]



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by alancorey on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 10:03:57 AM MST

A couple of surplus pillow blocks and some shaft might solve the mounting problem with the bigger blades.  You'd just need a way to couple this to it.  I like to avoid building in metric.

What size are those magnets anyway?  I couldn't find that.  I've been thinking of trying something similar with a bicycle wheel.

  Alan



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Stonebrain on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 12:59:31 PM MST

COOL,Willib,
you're an artist.

Would be a shame to take magnets of.

Go rather for the better shaft.

I feel you will have a bad night about cutting that shaft.
never mind,it's fun

cheers,
stonebrain




Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by vawtman on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 04:09:04 PM MST

Nice work Willib

 Maybe i missed it but what form of epoxy did you use to adhere the mags?Im messing with Mustang rotors and front wheel bearings but i think maybe too much drag.

 I'll follow along with great interest
 Carry on



Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by willib on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 11:57:43 PM MST

no epoxy , maybe i shoud have waited till it was farther along , but i was excited and wanted to share it


Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)
[ Parent ]


Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by motoman465 on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 06:49:36 PM MST

Awesome...talk about ingenuity.  I was thinking of something similar a while back, but never got around to trying it out.  It is so great to see that it works.

Todd




Re: Motorcycle windmill (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by DaveW on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 08:47:11 PM MST

Willib -
   Remember the one like this (only smaller) I posted last Oct?  The inner race where the bearing was mounted had an outer race for the keeper ring.  I had to open it out only about 0.030 to accept a standard 2 inch OD bearing, which allowed me to use a 1 inch shaft.  The larger shaft will take seriously larger blades, and has a ton and a half load rating.  The whole swapout only took about 15 minutes of lathe time and the new rig runs as smooth and centered as the old.  The shielded bearings do add a little extra drag, but I prefer that to the sound of sand in the bearings.  With such a beast of a unit you might consider a shaft change out.  The bearings I used were the 1600 series by RBC if I remember right.  At any rate, keep up the good work and good luck with it.
DaveW


Motorcycle windmill | 15 comments (15 topical)
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