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11 KW wind mill in England


By Nando, Section Wind
Posted on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 08:55:55 PM MST
England West coast wind mill

FOR THOSE INTERESTED

A friend in England has been working with a prototype wind mill following some of my suggestions,

You can down load the PDF he is writing

http://www.martinslade.freeserve.co.uk/Prototype%2010Kw%20Wind%20turbine.pdf

I would like your read comments

Nando

11 KW wind mill in England | 14 comments (14 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 03:29:28 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

That's a neat one Nando.  Thanks for sharing.
I'm messing with a variable pitch hub soon - what's been done there is interesting.  Hopefully he'll post more information.



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by bob golding (photoman290 at yahoo dot com) on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 03:48:18 PM MST
(User Info)

thanks for posting that nando very impressive. i like the pitch adjustment. well engineered design. wish i had the facilities and knowledge to make something like that.

bob golding



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by phil b (philb7369at-no-more spam-yahoo.com) on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 04:17:01 PM MST
(User Info)

Simon states control at the turbine head is done with a PLC. Is the PLC used to control the blades directly?  
Is this used in conjuntion with an AVR?

Can you detail the control setup?

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing Nando! Simon has a lot of wind!




Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by RodN (_NOSPAM_info AT bnservices DOT it_NOSPAM_) on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 05:51:25 PM MST
(User Info)

11 KW with 2.8 meters blade.
Isn't it too much?



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by bob golding (photoman290 at yahoo dot com) on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 06:34:12 PM MST
(User Info)

the blades are 3 metres to the root plus the hub so  i make that around 6.5 metres overall. 11 kw is the size of the alternator, he doesnt say he is getting that out of it. i did just check the  article agian before i put my foot in it. still very impressive.

bob golding

[ Parent ]



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Nando (nando37-at-tx-dot-rr-dot-com Correct theanti-spam) on Sat Feb 10th, 2007 at 12:33:23 PM MST
(User Info)

The power is set to 10 KW maximum as shown in the report charts

Nando


[ Parent ]



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by bob golding (photoman290 at yahoo dot com) on Sat Feb 10th, 2007 at 03:17:30 PM MST
(User Info)

hi nando, thanks for that. i cant see the data chartes its all black on my download.
bob golding


[ Parent ]


Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Nando (nando37-at-tx-dot-rr-dot-com Correct theanti-spam) on Thu Feb 8th, 2007 at 11:30:56 PM MST
(User Info)

The wind mill has "passed" 91 MPH with flying colors.

I do not have the setting of the Pitch control for maximum power available at the present, the pitch control is via the mechanical setup and not via the PLC.

The AVR of the generator is not connected, the PLC supplies PWM to the rotor field.

The PLC is used to modulate the Rotor field current to attain the MPPT power and to keep the RPM limited to less than 200 RPM.

Simon is out of the country right now and he plans to convert the spring & weights pitch control to Pitch control via generator torque for several reasons, one if the generator does not need to produce power the blades will go into feathering, automatically, to a low RPM setting ( just low enough to have some voltage to return to its wind pitch control setting, when loaded) and to limit the maximum power automatically, he did this present pitch control because he had it drawn and handy, he has mechanical equipment in his farm ( lathe, milling machine etc).

More writing will be done later with more details.

The PLC is handy and has a lot of additional capabilities and I think data logging and data displayed or send to a PC.
By the way, we started with a 5 KW Chinese wind mill, Oh God !!.

DAN: As you can see, not that complicated and the pitch control via torque would be better and NO furling needed.

Nando



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Sun Feb 11th, 2007 at 09:27:28 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

It's very interesting.  I'm slowly messing with one that's rpm controlled.  I have a hard time grasping something that's based on torque.  YOu sent me pictures a while back about one and Im sure it works well, I just dont get how it'd work out.  Before cutin there'd be no torque.  I expect torque increases as output increases and it seems like it might be risky if the alternator failed, or if for any other reason the load was removed.  Pitching the blades based on rpm seems safer to me - but I admit, I don't have a full grip on what your doing here and how it works.

[ Parent ]


Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by Nando (nando37-at-tx-dot-rr-dot-com Correct theanti-spam) on Sun Feb 11th, 2007 at 01:08:51 PM MST
(User Info)

This is the message, I sent to the awea-wind-home@yahoogroups.

Without any doubt, One needs to understand the procedure to be able to implement a solution to the problem .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One needs to think what is happening with a Pitch with torque control to define the mill over speed.

Torque control sets the angle of attack of the blades and nothing else -- so if the torque is defined -- so it is the power, therefore if no torque, the power goes toward down to a minimum (normally toward Zero) though Zero is not possible due to the mechanical factors and the blades profile.

The end result is that when NO load, the blades go into almost feathering, and can be done in such a way that the RPM is just LOW enough to generate some voltage for the system to re-start when the load appears again.

Torque operated Pitch control can be designed to include parking, for those cases of high gale conditions -- though complicated to implement and probably impractical for small wind mills.

One way is to have a blade profile in such a way that after certain angle of attack the upper length of the blades (tips) starts to present a negative rotating force, causing the equivalent of shorting the blades at different wind velocities and at the same time giving the equivalent of reduced TSR, toward below 1.

For generators producing grid power, the Torque Pitch controlled presents the opportunity for the generator to have a wider operating range, in addition there are other hub implementations additions that allow faster pitch adjustments to keep the generator producing power at the GRID frequency.

Therefore if the Torque Pitch Controlled is unloaded, it goes toward minimum RPM, even when high winds exists.

ADDING TO THE MESSAGE: The Torque Pitch Controller HUB is floating on the generator shaft and the Pitch arm is against the Shaft arm and when the generator loads the arm of the shaft pushes the Pitch arm into the angle necessary to produce the torque that the generator is "requesting".

Nando

[ Parent ]



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by dalibor (mdalibor - at - gmail - com) on Sun Feb 11th, 2007 at 10:27:23 AM MST
(User Info)

nando, please correct me if i am wrong.

if i am understanding all this correctly, you are using generator also as some kind of brake as you use it normally as a producer of energy. is this correct?

making generator harder to turn and reducing rotation speed?

i have heard about something like this, but this is the first i have been seeing explained any way.

what is meaning of short PLC? MPTT?

thank you

dalibor



Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by bob golding (photoman290 at yahoo dot com) on Mon Feb 12th, 2007 at 02:54:22 PM MST
(User Info)

hi,
PLC=programmable logic controller.
MPPT= maximun power point tranfer.
hope this helps


[ Parent ]


Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Goose (dennishusman-at-yahoo-dot-com) on Mon Feb 12th, 2007 at 07:36:36 PM MST
(User Info)

Nando,
That is pretty cool windmill!  I would like more details on the Hub??  
Thanks for the post.
Goose


Re: 11 KW wind mill in England (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by tecker on Fri Feb 23rd, 2007 at 05:44:51 AM MST
(User Info)

Very cool unit but I think it will need something other than steel for those bearings on the trimmer ,the cams are also not weather proofed . With a good sized gearbox I assume the chances of needing the trim is around 20 %.



11 KW wind mill in England | 14 comments (14 topical, 0 editorial)
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Related Links
· http://www.martinslade.freeser ve.co.uk/Prototype%2010Kw%20Wind%20turbine.pdf
· Also by Nando

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