5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at last !
By CmeBREW, Section Mechanical Posted on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 02:39:42 AM MST
5000% more efficient  Box / Ceiling FAN  at last !

Greetings all again! I wasn't sure what catagory to put this- So forgive me if I missed the fan area. I've been very excited about this super simple floor fan I made recently I just wanted to share it with you. Each of the hundreds of millions of box and ceiling fans around the world running every day averages around 250 Watts on their high setting. Excuse my language-- but that SUCKS!  Those things are all unbelievable wastes of electricity when they run even on the medium setting 12-24 hours a day. The carbon emissions are horrible due to the COAL burning power companies to keep these running. I cannot believe there aren't FAR MORE efficient fans by now. They could EASILY now use Neo-magnets for the field in all these type motors.(Or at least ceramic) The electric company should GIVE those things away to people door to door! Nevertheless, This super easy to make Floor fan I made uses only 2-5 watts and puts out an enormous amount of air.(approx. 200-400 rpm) I call it the 'BreakingWind 5W-31'.(ha) I admit this one is alittle big (31 inch diam.)--- but it puts out BIG for little...If ya know what I mean. Each blade is close to 12" diameter and is made from 1/4" plywood that I painted with a sponge brush and white latex paint. (satin looks the best. Also, a little sponge roller would look even more professional. The actual motor and fan spindle is painted with a spray can of gloss white enamel. I use to be in cabinet making/finishing for 10 years so i'm no slouch myself-ha!) It only took me 2 hours to make and 1 hour to paint. (total of 3 hours for whole project) I was GREATLY surprised with the performance of this fan. It is totally quiet-- it is what I sleep with each night running off my two 12vdc marine batteries. I EASILY run this 24 hours a day -unless there is absolutely no wind for more than 48 hours straight. You can't get simpler than this. The hub part is 6"diam. 3/4" plywood. The 3 'legs' that stick out are at angles in order to mount the blades to. I forgot to measure the angle--could be 20-25 degrees??? I used the same exact treadmill motor (permanent magnet) as the Windmill thread I posted over the last 2 days. It is sold out unfortunetly from the "SURPLUS CENTER" catalog. (You can still get it on E-BAY but for $40 now)  NEVERtheless, they have another motor made by the same company that I just purchased in order to make another Super-efficient fan. (All my friends and family are amazed at this fan--so I have to make my father one) They have over 1600 of these Mcmillan 130VDC motors/ 3/4 hp -so they aren't going anywhere for awhile. According to my calculations, that motor as a fan will go faster though ,around 600 Rpm with a 12V battery and use a few more watts. The product # is   10-1817-D  $19.95. However this treadmill motor will NOT make a decent 12V wind turbine generator. Like most treadmill motors (such as a typical 130v @ 6550 rpm) they do not reach 12 volts (cut-in) until well over 600rpm --which is horrible.     If you don't have 12volt batteries , you can also use a typical 14.4vdc cordless drill charger/tranformer to run this big fan with ease! The transformer, plugged into the wall, barely even gets warm! Why would it- it is only 2-5 watts! It is 2-5 watts because I have it hooked to a normal 500 ohm Rheostat to control the speed. Which is nice. The rheostat simply reduces it from 5 watts @400rpm (directly hooked to battery) down to 2 watts @200rpm. It will go as slow as I want. I usually keep it at the 2 watt setting. At about 200rpm the fan takes 2 Watts and the rheostat takes 1 watt. This is the Power-hungry 120vac/240watt fan I use to run 10 hours a day every day. I used the stand base from this fan for my super E-fan. This fan was still working just fine when I declared it absolute JUNK and gave it it's final resting place. Anyway, I was as AMAZED at this fan as I was my windmill turbine- and It is a great progect for anyone including families to raise awareness of energy conservation and reducing carbon emmisions which we all know is ruining our Earth. -Have fun friends!

5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at last ! | 28 comments (28 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#1) by stephent on Fri Mar 9th, 2007 at 08:20:25 PM MST (User Info)

Cool and nice reduction of watts used. But----- "families to raise awareness of energy conservation " Families=exposure to those nice whirling blades with more then a small mass behind them for intertia....use a fan shroud if ya have kids, or keep it way high like a ceiling fan.

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#3) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Fri Mar 9th, 2007 at 08:32:03 PM MST (User Info)

Thanks Stephent:   Actually, you can hold the fan back to a full stop easily. It don't hurt at all when i accidently walk into it many times- especially at a slow 200rpm or so. Believe me, its not as dangerous as it looks. Theres not much intertia on this fan. However, the next one I'm making will have some. Youre right though, it would be a concern for very little kids that don't know about gravity and intertia yet. [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#21) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 08:27:13 AM MST (User Info)

I hate to rain (late) on my own parade, but I was inaccurate on something I said above. Stephent is right. At only 200rpm or so it doesn't have much inertia and so it doesn't hurt any. But going at over 400rpm it DOES pack quite a wallope. I had thought that since the blades are round it wouldn't be so bad. Since the diameter is SO big and the rpm is just slow enough (400rpm), you can get between the blades and get pretty 'hammered'. So if you have small kids you probably shouldn't make one unless it is on a higher pole. That was just a prototype. My next one will be on a higher pole and have more multiple blades. Nevertheless, since i personally don't have any kids, i am still very happy with the low power, decent wind results. [ Parent ]

MORE efficiency .... (3.00 / 0) (#2) by wdyasq on Fri Mar 9th, 2007 at 08:22:05 PM MST (User Info)

IF one would use an airfoil type shape on the blades.... IF one picked the PROPER airfoil for the Reynolds numbers and it all had the right twist I suspect even more air/watt output could be obtained. The last 10% or so in any project is a beast. One is many times better off taking the easy goal and leaving the last bit for those with feral.. I mean federal grants. Ron Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen

Re: MORE efficiency .... (3.00 / 0) (#27) by feral air on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 at 03:30:45 PM MST (User Info)

For more efficiency couldn't you just add a flywheel (5-10lbs, say) and pulse-feed the fan? For instance; 5 seconds on, 5 seconds off - rinse, repeat. The flywheel's momentum should keep the fan spinning during the "off" time and when it's "on" you gain back the few rpms you lost when it was off. Assuming it's a "balanced system", of course. I must be missing something 'cause it seems too obvious and logical.... [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#4) by stephent on Fri Mar 9th, 2007 at 08:42:45 PM MST (User Info)

Ahhh--I'm a Gram'pa that has small grandkids and have to look out for them with things like that...one is just a rugrat and starting to crawl now. The others are a little older but still kinda young. And kids will stick fingers into just about anything just to see what it does...hehe

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#5) by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Fri Mar 9th, 2007 at 09:07:23 PM MST (User Info)

So I wonder how other DC motors will do, those that are easier and cheaper to get.  I have a Box fan running 24 hours always for some reason, move heat in winter, cooler air in summer, sometimes 3 of them. I played with car radiator fans a little but got busy with other stuff and forgot about them. Maybe you should try one and see what you can do with it. At 12V they are killers (so fast), cut it back to 6V or 3V and maybe a decent cheap fan ready built with good blades? I have 5 or more tossed in the yard, various sizes from large and small cars. You did a great job on the genny and now a fan, can't wait to see what you post next :) . nothing to lose Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#7) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 06:59:54 AM MST (User Info)

Thanks nothing to lose, A 12v car radiator fan uses WAY TOO many amps. It would run your batt bank down quick. Also normal 12vdc high rpm motors are desighned to be too fast and also would make more noise and run too much out of the batts. Thats the great thing about those treadmill fans- the volt ratings are HIGH (usually over 100vdc) so as you keep dividing the voltage in half you divide the rpm in half also---so when you get down to 12v (a battery) the rpm is going MUCH slower and use almost no power. ITs amazing.  -Thanks [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#10) by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 10:07:29 AM MST (User Info)

I guess your right I just checked a radiator fan right now, but it depends on the use it's needed for perhaps.  If I am replacing a box fan using allot of power to move allot of air, I want the same allot of air moved with the new fan also. I love your fan, probably a nice gentle breeze and it has an old style type charm to it's look. At those low watts low speeds it's probably not a great big air mover for a window fan to cool the house. You could turn it up to run faster and use more power to move more air for that purpose, but then your running faster and using more power. If you ran the box fan on low and turned up this fan to move an equal amount of air, this fan would maybe use more power than 2-5 watts but of course still far less than the box fan I'm sure. If I back down the speed of a radiator fan to move the same air then it uses less power than running normal at full speed. At 6v the radiator fan may  move about equal air as a box fan? I gave away a couple motors but I have at least one or more just like yours still, not sure the ratings on it till  find it. I may make a fan like yours, I like it, I may do mine in a darker color and styled a bit like a antique fan if I build it. Too bad we can't buy a nice low speed fan now a days, everything is made for high speed. However the air being moved is a load on the motor, the more air moved the more load, therefore the more power the motor will use. This radiadtor fan is a high RPM motor at 12V but that's no gentle breeze it's making either with those blades. For a window fan and other uses where more air needs moved it's probably something to try I did not have anything handy to test it at lower volts, though I have ran some of these fan motors around 6v for other uses. Various motors will be different of course.  11.6V  7amps running full speed, about 81.2 watts. I only had 1 meter handy so I could not actually see the volts under load and amps at same time. But I checked each with motor running. That was only a 17amphr battery. Start up amps was allot higher for a few seconds 10amps starting from dead stop quickly droping back to 7amps running full speed. A big problem here is that this fan is still on the radiator which is restricting the airflow a good bit, this makes the fan work harder to suck air and of course that extra work requires more amps. If I took this fan off and ran it in clean open air it might use 1-2 amps less power. I do not have tools handy. It's enough air to blow you over at that speed with that blade design mounted to the radiator still. Far more air than any box fan I have here! Running this radiator fan at 6v perhaps 40watts (maybe less) would make a nice box fan or window fan and the RPM would be reasonable. One of the reasons this one was easy to find and test, the radiator is good and has 2 of the same fans on it. I could not wire the fans together this morning, but the plan is run cold water through the radiator and run the 2 fans in series at 6V each for part of a house cooler if I ever get around to building it. The water running through the radiator of course will not be used for anything else, a closed loop system. I do like that first picture of the fan, nice contrast and sort of humerous.  Bright sun shining in on the wall, energy saving fan sitting in front of 300-500watt halogen floor lamp turned on (I have same lamp but not using it), next to electric heater :)  Course if you need a bit of extra heat it's all good. I converterd one of my Halogens to CFL, maybe you did yours also. . nothing to lose Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics. [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#20) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Thu Mar 15th, 2007 at 06:44:17 PM MST (User Info)

The nice testing 'Nothing to lose' did on radiator fans has changed my mind about "Way too many amps" statement I said earlier. (Also other DC fans) The watts were not too bad after he knocked the voltage down some. Beats a box fan by a long shot! And with speed controllers there are endless applications and situations where any of these DC fans could be used. The big ceramic magnets inside them are what is doing most the work for FREE instead of electifiing the magnetic field. Thats what I love about them. That 12vdc fan I made could also be hooked up to a 24v system (If your fortunete enough to afford it) and get twice the RPM but more watts of course. Thats when one could also make a small radius window fan out of one of these. (Or with a 24vdc transformer/ got to be big enough though-probably 1amp) [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#6) by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 06:04:58 AM MST (User Info) http://wooferhound.com

I would have used the blades from the 120vac fan that's in the trash. W o o f -={(

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#8) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 07:10:03 AM MST (User Info)

Actually, it was the WORST designed Chinese 'Cheap' fan I have ever seen. Whoever designed that fan should be 'working at the snack bar', not designing anything. Each plastic blade actually bent in opposing directions in its front. You could put your face right in front of this fan on high and not feel much of ANYTHING! I kid you not. I am over-joyed to get rid of it. [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#9) by Titantornado on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 09:52:33 AM MST (User Info)

I really like this idea for a ceiling fan application.  Even 10 - 15 watts would be very acceptable. Something in the 5 watt range to move a decent amount of air would be incredible.  I've also been considering efficient fan options for an "earth tube" cooling system.  This could be it! Rod

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#12) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 05:40:15 PM MST (User Info)

Thanks Titantornado,     The motor I used would also make an amazing, low-power ceiling fan. I don't have anymore of these motors though. If you notice in my photoghraphs, what I made there really WAS a ceiling fan that I simply put on a pole and called a 'floor fan'. When making it I did test it vertically also and it is still extremely quite, but due to the added resistance in the front big ball bearing, it takes an extra watt of power on the high setting.(=6 watts) It DOES put out an enormous amount of air both ways. A simple mounting bracket on the back (with plenty of rubber washers/o'rings on both sides of the mounting screws) and you can easily make a ceiling fan. Today I tested my big 'floor fan' against a common box fan on the high setting (220watts/rated) , and found that with 3 persons (family) sitting on a couch 12 feet away , one person directly in line with the box fan feels alittle more air from the box fan on high than mine, BUT my big fan has a much WIDER dispersal, and ALL THREE of the persons sitting on the couch feel a good amount of wind. But not with the box fan.(difficult to explain) That other treadmill motor i mentioned, I will be getting in a few days. It should make a somewhat higher rpm fan and probably around 8-10 watts, BUT with even more torque. So it should make a more powerful fan. Thats why the next 'floor fan' I make with this new motor will be less overall diameter. (I'm thinking about 27 in.) However, one of these may be dangerous to a very young child (as Stephent pointed out to me/ got me thining) - since they would chase a ball right into one of these. They use to make these type fans back in the old days--thats probably why they stopped doing it. I personally don't have any kids--but PLEASE use good judgement yourself. I wish I had't said that "family statement" now. I am only an Experimenter like most everyone here. I DON'T plan on selling these! If you do make one at least use 1/4" plywood (actually 3/16") since it is so light, instead of hardboard. Nevertheless, I encourage you to make a super-efficient ceiling fan and show us your success! [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#13) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 07:09:09 PM MST (User Info)

I forgot one more thing about that couch testing. That cheap box fan on high made a LOUD annoying noise (close to impossible to watch TV or to talk), whereas my big 'floor fan' was absoluely quiet. You might think your sitting in a peaceful,windy prairie.  -HAVE FUN PEOPLE [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#14) by Titantornado on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 07:41:08 PM MST (User Info)

I only wish I knew about these motors when they were available for $10.  Ahh well, not the first boat I missed. ;o) Rod [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#16) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Sun Mar 11th, 2007 at 03:32:17 PM MST (User Info)

Yeah,,,me too. I wanted a few more of them. Talk about disheartening. Late last year I thought they had over a thousand. Hope they didn't throw them away or something. Theyve been in the catalog for many years. Wish I had discovered this out earlier. I wanted to be the hero for once. Maybe next time. [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#11) by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Sat Mar 10th, 2007 at 01:04:45 PM MST (User Info)

I'll do a different post so I don't screw up yours with other stuff.  I did testing on the radiator fan, amps dropped to 6.5 @ 12v when taken off the radiator and it runs at nearly any volts. I also tested 2 AC box fans with the watt o meter, and my battery charger was also tested. May bring up some interesting DC ideas to save power? I also found my motor like yours. 120Vdc, 6amps, 2.25hp. These are not the same as the others I had, allot more open areas in the case. . nothing to lose Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#15) by Roamer195 on Sun Mar 11th, 2007 at 06:25:40 AM MST (User Info)

You might want to try a PWM controller on a cheap 12v motor. Any low-voltage brush type motor can be used. Just make sure you mount your output mosfet on a good heatsink. http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/circ/pwm555.html

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#17) by nothing to lose (nothingtolose175 at yahoo.com) on Mon Mar 12th, 2007 at 09:26:52 AM MST (User Info)

I tested mine again, 120VDC, 6amp 2.25HP, just the motor no load. I don't have a 3/4hp motor like this that I can find.  Mine at 12.57v  was 0.39amps (4.9watt) and 525rpm, no load with cast iron pulley stil on it. There was a slight squeak in the motor, that could be adding a load as slight drag, this motor needs cleaned. The least little load starts running up the amps, I just let it brush against my finger a bit on the cast iron pully and raised the amps it was drawing. Putting any blades on mine will be a load (moving the air) and draw more in amps/watts also. Still far better than an normal AC box fan! Your on to something good here. I have other DC motors around that I will try to test later and see what they do. . nothing to lose Spelin and tpying are my strong points, not electronics.

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#25) by Bushwhacker on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 11:50:38 PM MST (User Info)

If it's cooling you are after I'm in nothing to lose's camp. "One of the reasons this one was easy to find and test, the radiator is good and has 2 of the same fans on it. I could not wire the fans together this morning, but the plan is run cold water through the radiator and run the 2 fans in series at 6V each for part of a house cooler if I ever get around to building it. The water running through the radiator of course will not be used for anything else, a closed loop system." I would replace the radiator with an automotive AC radiator, put the works into a "purdy" box and trickle your tap/well water through the AC radiator and slow water a tree (which won't hurt on a hot day) with the warmed/waste water. Your AC bill is way down, your tree is getting watered, and your house is cooler. I'm building my next/last house soon so this will be a breeze to incorporate in construction. As always retrofit would be harder but not impossible. Think about a bypass and 2 way (splitter?) valve on the way to your water hose tap on the outside of your home. Run the bypass through the floor and into the "El Cheapo" AC unit. Of course you do lose portability. I'll build it into an interior wall. By reversing the polarity to the fans you could have a choice between cooling one of two rooms on a common wall in my application. Nothing personal, you have a great idea, but I would prefer a cool breeze over just a breeze on a hot day. If you just want air movement don't turn on the water. My $0.02. BTW I've been pilfering information like mad all over this board. THANK-YOU posters. Regards,BW [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#18) by ghurd on Tue Mar 13th, 2007 at 06:21:24 PM MST (User Info)

Don't keep us hanging on how the new motor works! G-

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#19) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Tue Mar 13th, 2007 at 06:54:56 PM MST (User Info)

Most certainly. As soon as I get the time, i will make the other faster (600+rpm) fan.(27 in diameter) It will be more difficult to make though, since I don't have that nice plastic/metal tubing base like the other one. I will have to weld it up out of black pipe. The hardest part of the project is making it look really beautiful for display to everyone! -until later... [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#24) by ghurd on Sat Jun 2nd, 2007 at 03:29:29 PM MST (User Info)

Still waiting... Norm is too... It's getting kind of warm here... G- [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN (3.00 / 0) (#22) by Tritium on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 11:34:51 AM MST (User Info)

The Surplus Center PN you listed doesn't match the description you indicated for the motor nor does it match the price. Could you double check the PN? http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2007040512124527&catname=electric&qty=1&item=10-1817-D Thanks Thurmond

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN (3.00 / 0) (#23) by CmeBREW (smke833f@hotmail.com) on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 03:42:35 PM MST (User Info)

Sorry about that. Thanks for telling me. It is: # 10-2326 Or you can just type in 'treadmill motor' and its the first one at top. The motor I made the big fan out of is sold out though. But the next fan I am making is with that other, in stock, motor (10-2326) and it goes approx. 600 rpm -- so it will make a great 7-10 watt fan at 12vdc. (about 26 inch diameter blades) [ Parent ]

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#26) by bsafe on Tue Aug 14th, 2007 at 09:48:38 PM MST (User Info)

Are you using a 120v light dimmer between the wall outlet and the transformer? Are you willing to share your speed control schematic? I have a treadmill motor (from surplus center)that is not suitable for a windmill and I would like to build a version of you fan.motor specs: mcmillan  model s3357B2768 8 amp 120v. thank you. bsafe.

Re: 5000% more efficient Box / Ceiling FAN at la (3.00 / 0) (#28) by alochin (alochin@yahoo.com) on Tue Sep 18th, 2007 at 10:23:57 PM MST (User Info) http://lochin.us

What about using this motor to power that pump: http://tinyurl.com/35nkfs Full address: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=6970&productId=1194 8&R=11948&cm_ven=TL&cm_cat=ERK&cm_pla=Google&cm_ite=pump I am thinking of installing a low power solar system to power only essential equipments in my house: ventilation, rainwater pumping, maybe efficient refrigeration (http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Conservation/chest_fridge2.pdf). The ventilation would spread my wood stove heat thoughout my house. I would need at least two fans for that. The 12V motors for the fans and pumps would be directly wired to the solar panels. No inverters, no batteries (there would be some relays). At night, everyone sleeps. In the morning, I start the wood stove, and as the sun rises, the fans come on line. The loads would be switched using relays and voltage sensing. The water pump would run on demand, and everything else would be switched off when the pumps are activated by a pressure switch, as in a pressure booster (unless panel output is strong enough to keep them runing). Second order of priority would be the refrigerator. Then, when there is no demand, the fans would run, loading the solar panels and equalizing the house temperature, replacing/filtering indoor air ... A big pressure tank would give a moderate reserve capacity on the water system for (very) light night use. Some form of heat storage would be needed to prevent night temperatures to deep too much. A set of two 130Watt solar panels would likely suffice. It would provide about 400Wh a day December average in my area (Seattle). One could even consider adding a small chest freezer (mine uses 600Wh a day) set outside, to benefit from cooler winter outdoor temp. This would balance somewhat the load on the panels between summer and winter. Four panels would then be needed, for a total of 830W daily December output. Attic fans would add load in the summer, while providing needed cooling. When there is a power outage, we would still use candles, but we wouldn't freeze, and the food wouldn't go bad in the fridge and freezer. Zero maintenance. I call it the "House that sleeps and wakes up" :-) What do you think? Andre. http://lochin.us [ Parent ]

Login

Make a new account Username: Password:

Total Views

235 Scoop users have viewed this posting.

Related Links

· magnet · Also by CmeBREW