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I dont believe I did this


By electronbaby, Section Wind
Posted on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 08:56:19 PM MST
fixing blade noise...

I thought I would never do this, but I bought a wind turbine. Ive had good luck in building dual rotor machines for a while, and I think I will build another dual rotor this summer to replace this Bergey because it is a relatively small diameter machine (8.2 ft) and it just does not have the low wind performance available in say a 14'-16' machine. It is still fun to test it out and see what its capable of. I have seen over 1500W from it and its rated at 1000 so thats not too bad. Ive had some problems with it, but thats MY fault lol. Here we go...




This is a Bergey XL.1  Its an 8.2' diameter machine with gravity furling (or Autofurl like bergey likes to say). MADE IN CHINA stamped all over it. It costs roughly $2500 with the controller. (expensive experiment) They rectify in the nacelle and bring DC down the tower on 2 slip rings...not sure I like this, but I see it leading to some more control experiments being done with some IGBT's perhaps. I think I like the controller because your able to run without a dumpload and the controller automatically dynamically brakes the machine when needed to prevent overvoltage. Similar to how my past systems worked. I had to make the green pipe adapter you see below the machine to adapt it to the tower I am using currently. I think out of the box it requires a 4.5" OD tower pipe to be mounted in. Im horrible at taking pics when Im building all this stuff up because its only me in the shop most of the time so if i miss anything of interest, just ask. I wish I had some actual numbers but I just had a problem with my pentametric (i use to record all power production) and I just bought a nice wind and data logger and it hasnt arrived yet, so soon Ill post some numbers.




Heres where it sits currently, 90' up.  If anyone on this board has one of these, please do not sand off the small ridges on the back of the blades :-P   I DID. Big mistake. I dont recall reading in the manual where it says not to do this. But, supposedly, your NOT TO DO THIS.  To tell you the truth, they sort of look like a manufacturer defect and its this little ridge that makes the machine so quiet. I wish i had a BEFORE pic of what it looked like.  To make a long story short, I removed the ridge because I thought it would make noise. Well after i removed them, it made ALOT of noise. Generally at low wind speeds however. This was unacceptable because I have been spoiled this whole time I have experimented with dual rotor machines and I really like to run them slightly in stall because they are so slow and quiet but at the same time relatively powerful.




This is the current Bergey XL.1 airfoil. No twist. No taper. Constant pitch with a little bit of the trailing tip cut off. The ridge was located at the top of the airfoil at the highest point.




Looking up the blade, you can see I came up with a way to compensate for my stupidity lol. I was going to put leading edge tape on anyway, so I just stuck something under it to create a "ridge" so to speak very similar to what was there. I actually used monofilament fishing line close to the same size as the original ridge. I taped it off at the root and pulled it taught and folded it around the tip and taped it to the front of the blade. I then covered it with leading edge tape, making sure there was no bubbles or creases in the tape, and folded the excess tape around the leading edge. After the edge tape was applied I used my fingernail to run the length of the fishing line and make sure the new "ridge" was exactly uniform and it was adhering well. Before the tape was fully adhered to the root and tip, I cut back the monofilament .25" so the tape could overlap and form a nice (hopefully) weather tight seal. Centrifigual force usually keeps most water out, but time will tell.




Here is another shot of the ridge I created. Its DEAD QUIET now. ALL the time. I think this works by creating slight turbulence at the back of the airfoil causing it to smooth out the trailing edge currents as the air moves around the blade. It also might make the blade profile apear to seem thicker at lower speeds. Im not sure and this is just speculation. Maybe someone else can chime in on this. I know the SWW Skystream 1.8 uses the same technique but on the leading edge (top and bottom).

Now some cool pics of past projects:




Heres my place from 90'.




8Kw of grid tie PV for the front house. (Im still off grid)
...yes, thats a tractor i have to fix this spring.




520w tracker I built up. This floats the house bank till sundown. Ive seen 650W out of 4 KC130's and an MX60. Pretty cool if you ask me.




the back of the tracker. single axis. It uses one of the Red Rock Energy boards. Pretty cool little circuit. No failures yet. :-P

Roy R
KB2UHF

I dont believe I did this | 12 comments (12 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by hiker (hiker.wild[at]yahoo[dot]com) on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 02:19:18 PM MST
(User Info)

nice....
might try that blade trick on my windgen..
gets a little noisy on the back of my motorhome in a good brezze...
what make of tractor is that?
WILD IN ALASKA


Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 at 05:32:41 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Its a ford. I forget what model :-)
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Big Photos (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by TomW on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 02:32:17 PM MST
(User Info)

eb;

Kind of a lot of fairly large pictures in one story. Folks with slow internet will not be happy. 9 pictures and the 2 I checked were about 150K each.

Please bear in mind that we have many users in areas where broadband internet is not available so what takes you 5 seconds to upload may take them 5 minutes to download. Take that times 9 and most will click away rather than wait.

Anyway looks like you are in for some fun with the new "toy"

Good luck.

Cheers.

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain



Re: Big Photos (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Goose (dennishusman-at-yahoo-dot-com) on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 05:44:54 PM MST
(User Info)

keep post'n Roy,  I'm sure most of us enjoy looking!!
Goose
[ Parent ]


Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by harrie on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 03:44:24 PM MST
(User Info)

Hey, great shots of your farm, and the good tip on the ridge line. Did you notice any differents on performance with and without the ridge???. Thanks for shareing



Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 at 05:36:45 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

Ive noticed no difference in performance other than its dead quiet. Its my understanding now that Bergey rates their machines on the low side. This is a good thing and quite often in a good breeze it peaks 60A into the 24v battery. Im looking for an opportunity now to test this little trick on other small turbines that have a relatively high operating RPM. Ill let you know if it works as soon as i find a test subject lol. It might not take too long before I have one.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by jmk on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 07:52:28 PM MST
(User Info)

 It looks like you have a nice set up. The farm looks nice from way up there too. If your off grid and you are grid tied in the front house. Does this mean that you are living in the back house? Nice pictures, thanks for the post.
jmk


Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Flux on Wed Mar 28th, 2007 at 10:56:31 PM MST
(User Info)

I don't think most people object to decent high quality pictures that are worth looking at and don't mess the browser up.

What does annoy me are large pictures that screw up the page size and make me have to chase the text with the scroll thing on the bottom. If they are that big and the things are low quality and out of focus then they don't get looked at.

Some of the monster things I see at times would actually show more if reduced to about 400 pixels wide and compressed to 20k. If there is no detail there then large sizes and high file size are a nuisance.

The limit on size is great, I haven't had to do that scrolling thing lately, that really did annoy me. The odd file up to 150k is ok as long as the quality justifies it, if it is out of focus, black or has no detail then delete rather than permit it at 100k would suit me better.

No complaints Tom, you are doing a great job.
Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by libra (pmooreyca@yahoo.ca) on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 at 05:19:57 AM MST
(User Info)

Nice pictures but what did I miss? What happened to the home made machine?



Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 at 05:48:38 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

The current homebrew machine (16'diameter)came down because of a blade balance issue (again). I was quite happy with that machine and as it stood, it quite frequently produced more power than I needed. It usualy was shorted durring the day when I didnt need the power (plenty of PV) and at night it would automatically start working. I had the oportunity to pick up the Bergey machine and I wanted to get it up while we still had some good strong winter wind here on Long Island so I could really test. Now, my opinion might change now that summers on the way as we rely mainly on the PV in the summer, but we will see. I would like to build another machine this summer to possibly replace the bergey. Im thinking of a slightly smaller, possibly 12' machine. My only gripe with small rotor diameters is obviously the start up speed required. When you spin the Bergey alternator you do feel some cogging although, not too bad. This does lead to slightly higher start up. Thats one thing the dual rotor axial design is so good for. In my opinion, who cares about the low efficiency at higher RPMs, its the lower range you want to take advantage of, and there is no other design that I know of that does this quite as well as tha axial. NOW, in a grid tied scenario, this might not be so good. Thats why there is so much talk about MPPT designs for small wind. However, since Im off grid still, my view seems to be from a slightly different angle.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]


Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by paradigmdesign (paradigmpower_05@yahoo.com) on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 at 08:44:02 AM MST
(User Info) www.goldstarpetresort.com

When speaking with a guy from Bergey, he did say thoes were for making the blades quieter, said it is a strip of fiberglass tape allong the back.  I belive he called it "tripping" the blade, though I may be mistaken.
"Don't worry about tomorrow, plan for it."


Re: I dont believe I did this (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by spinningmagnets (velmis1450bc(at)aol(dot)com) on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 at 05:17:32 PM MST
(User Info)

I haven't made my first wind-gen yet, but...

Even if someone wasn't worried about noise, anything that reduces drag on the backside of the blade can improve low-wind performance. The dimples on golfballs break up the airs adhesion on the sperical surface and reduce drag on the back of the ball, resulting in golf balls going farther. This was discovered because old, "whacked" balls (as opposed to the new smooth balls) were going farther.

Who coulda guessed? Great idea with the fishing line and tape!

"A friend helps you move,...a GOOD friend helps you move a body"

[ Parent ]



I dont believe I did this | 12 comments (12 topical, 0 editorial)
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