April 26 2007
By DanB, Section Remote Living Posted on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 02:35:03 PM MST
Scott water wheel - dead honda - chickens...

Monday Rich knocked out a 24V stator for a 10' wind turbine.  We cast it towards the end of the day... it came out nicely.  I love the new plastic molds we made. This is the water wheel we built with Scotty for his place about three years ago.  Amazing how quickly time goes by.  The page about it is here: http://www.otherpower.com/scotthydro1.html It's been working well making about 20 watts 24/7 for the last two and a half years or so.  (it's had a couple breaks when the creek has dried up but mostly it's been running).  Recently the bearing play got so bad that the runner started banging on the frame/knocked a few vanes out of it and it stopped. This is how it looked when Scott brought it up on Monday.  At one point he replaced the runner we'd built with a squirrel cage fan thinking maybe it'd make more power.  It didn't - but it made about the same so he left it on there.  It's interesting to think that the bearing in this machine is from an old dodge - Scott removed it years ago from the car and used it on some kind of wood working machine.  Then he removed it from that and we built this machine with it.  On this unit - the bearing ran wet - with no grease cap, and no seal for 2 and a half years.  It's shot now... but this confirms my thinking that we don't need to worry a great deal about the wind turbines we build with wheel bearings.  We've made lots of wind turbines with used wheel bearings - we've never used the seal (it adds a lot of friction in my opinion) and we've never had a failure yet.  I know this is a controversial point of veiw and I know that some folks have figured out ways to use a seal that provide for less friction.  I'm impressed that this bearing held up as long as it did. There's the old runner we made - hell put this back on next Monday after he gets a new bearing in there. Pictured above you can see how wide the airgap was set on this alternator.  We adjusted that to get the best performance from the alternator.  The airgap must be about 1.5" on this machine. Scott disassembles his water wheel. Those are the magnet rotors - from an old dodge I believe.  The polyester casting around them seems to have held up well - the nickel plate on the magnets is like new.  There is a bit of magnetite built up on the magnets - not as much as Id have thought though.  when we put it in I worried that it would pack up with magnetite quickly - that's  not been a problem though.  All in all it's held up very well considering this machine has been wet/sitting in the creek all the time. We had a good spring snow storm on Tuesday (got about 15" here) so I finally got a good chance to burn all the slash left over from my tower site that we cleared about a year ago. I use this honda for welding and pumping water.  Our cistern ran dry on Tuesday so I started it up.  It ran for about 5 min and just seized up for no very good reason.   RIP - I don't like high rpm honda generators very much anyhow, although it was handy for welding on tower sites sometimes.  I still have my listeroid diesel although it needs a bit of work and I've not used it all winter (I also want to move it closer to my shop).  This was a bad time for the honda to die though -we're leaving for Guemes Island in about 1 week and I was counting on this for my wife to pump water/charge batteries if needed.  She has trouble starting the diesel (crank start) - this was convenient with electric start. Yesterday I hooked this up experimentally to see if I could run our well pump with it.  Our well pump has a 3/4hp 220V motor - our inverter is a 120VAC Trace SW4048.  I was pleasantly surprised to find that using this variac as an autotransformer worked out just fine.  Its a big old 30 amp variac - probably made for dimming theater lights.  It weighs a ton and seems to do the job well.  It even runs my welder pretty well so long as I don't turn it up too high. About 4  years ago in the old shop...  this is the addition I built onto the 10x50 mobile home for a lathe. Now it's a chicken coop...

April 26 2007 | 12 comments (12 topical)

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#1) by willib on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 03:06:24 PM MST

i'm glad to hear the variac worked out well Carpe Ventum (seize the wind)

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#2) by thefinis on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 03:56:06 PM MST

If you are running the wheel bearings with no seal(wind turbine) do you pack it with waterproof bearing grease? The bearing running in the creek should do fair with water for lube if it keeps turning it is the times that the creek dries up and it just sits that will usually seize them. Those rollers/balls just get smaller and smaller with time. I have seen several old style belt drive irrigation pumps with water cooled/lubed bearings(hmmm might be bushings never had one apart). As always good work and thanks for sharing. Finis Texas born and bred

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#3) by DanB on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 04:33:25 PM MST

I usually use 'marine' wheel bearing grease - not sure if it makes much difference or not (probably not).  Yes - these ones just ground down and teh rollers are small now.  I expect plenty of grit got into them - the creek runs pretty muddy sometimes.

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#11) by PeterAVT on Fri Apr 27, 2007 at 11:48:11 AM MST

Glad to see the variac is OK, that is one big unit. They are a good brand name as I recall. The bearings, I have only blown up one set of wheel bearings in my life and I always use marine grease. It makes a difference IMHO maybe its thicker or something so it repels sand. Grit will kill bearings quicker than anything at the same speed. The set that I blew up came from the front spindle on a chevy/dana44 front axle, a 4x4 farm truck which had been neglected for decades. The axles were a beefy unit but they still needed regular care, like grease them once a year or something. The faster the speed or the heavier the load, the quicker they will burn up. Maybe Scott does OK if the bearings are under water and so it cools them off. I dunno. AKA "inode_buddha" Power to the people! [ Parent ]

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#4) by ghurd on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 04:41:25 PM MST

Was the water wheel worth any effort? Was the difference too small to tell? G- Ghurd.info

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#5) by vawtman on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 05:01:07 PM MST

Hi Dan  Just a thought on the waterwheel.  Maybe run 2 alts and that way you could get them away from the water.Both sharing the shaft of the wheel.

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#6) by jmk on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 06:47:20 PM MST

Tell Maya she did a great job on the door, and the rest of the coop. When are you getting the chicks, or are they full grown?   jmk

Re: April 26 2007 (3.00 / 0) (#7) by tecker on Fri Apr 27, 2007 at 05:56:11 AM MST

Put a long shaft on the wheel and move the genset to a dryer location 5 to 6feet away . I know this probably has already been nixed for other reasons . Probaly not enough torque.

Honda Suggestions (3.00 / 0) (#8) by RogerAS on Fri Apr 27, 2007 at 06:11:05 AM MST

Dan, The Honda might yet be saved. Remove the spark plug and see if the plug shows problems. If it's melted away, covered in oil, ect. Sometimes plugs shed the electrode and that can case a lockup. If the plug looks normal and the engine still won't turn with the plug out it may have a broken ring, or dropped a valve. Removing the valve cover will tell you if it's a valve problem. If it broke a ring, or piston, this is a fairly simple  repair, as is a dropped valve. If you can see if you can reverse the direction of rotation, even just a little. If a ring is stuck, or a valve, sometimes this will allow it to break loose. That doesn't cure the problem, but it will tell you if the engine is able to be saved. Drain the oil and look carefully in strong light for metal particles. If there is a good deal of shed metal the engine indeed may be lost, as the lower end may have died. These engines are not worth the trouble when the bottom end goes. The oil pump may have failed. The carb may have "leaned out" and overheated the top end, again that would be shown in the sparkplug inspection. Debris in the fuel line, a constricted jet or other fuel supply problems could have caused this. If indeed the engine is toast I have a 5.5 HP Honda with less than 300 hours. It is a GX160, non starter type. If it would fit the gen shaft it would work. I have little to no use for it and would trade mag wire or??? Also, it wouldn't be all that hard to setup an electric starter for the Listeroid. A big DC motor and belt drive with a Ford selenoid would get 'er spinnin'. Maybe a modified automotive starter, remove the nose gear and replace with a pully. One could go as far as mounting a 2.3L flywheel to the Lister, build a fake bell housing and use a common starter as is. I've seen this type engine modified to have electric start on a couple different web sites and it looked pretty straight forward to me. Anyway, hope this is of some help. Roger AS 9 Years off-grid & counting

Re: Honda Suggestions (3.00 / 0) (#9) by BigBreaker on Fri Apr 27, 2007 at 07:20:05 AM MST

Isn't it a little ironic if a genset can't start itself?  By definition you have an ample sized electric motor attached to the engine.  You just need the right controller. [ Parent ]

Re: Honda Suggestions (3.00 / 0) (#10) by DanB on Fri Apr 27, 2007 at 08:10:33 AM MST

Hi Roger - yes, Ill look into it (someday).  The way it slowed down before it died I expect its stuck pretty tight.  Thank you for the offer of the engine.  This one actually has an 11hp engine. Probably the best use for it is to bury it for a guy wire anchor ;-) [ Parent ]

Re: Honda Suggestions (3.00 / 0) (#12) by TheEquineFencer on Wed Jul 01, 2009 at 12:04:57 PM MST

I see this is an old post and figured I'd inject some infomation. If the engine is locked because of the rod just seizing to the crank, it probably transfered aluminum to the steel.  I found you can remove the gauded aluminum by taking a torch and CAREFULLY heating the journal until the Aluminum melts without discoloring the crank, while it's "fluid, take a wire brush and wipe the Aluminum from the crank. It does not remove any steel or really damage the crank. Then install a new or another used rod  and you're back in bussiness. I'd check to see why it failed, low oil level or pump failure? I'd also check the crank for being out of round. Good luck. Floyd. F. Moore Farmville, NC [ Parent ]

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