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new stator


By outback, Section Mechanical
Posted on Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 03:10:50 AM MST
burn out mechanical?

Hi all,
  Just wanted to show you my new stator 24volt cuts in at 140 rpm 102 raps of 14gauge

the old stator burnt up i think do to two stator bolts coming loose and getting into the magnet disc 3/2/07 back together in 5 days,i was lucky tho in the next pic you can see the magnet wire wound up between the stator and magnet disc stopping the prop saving this unit from self destrution.

this stator was wound with 16 gauge 107 turn i think and cut in at 73rpm it stalled badly but turned out power every day,i lost some of that low speed charge but run a lot smoother now,prop more closely matches the alternator.
 if ya all get time check out my pictures in my photo uploads i have some new ones up. almost forgot check out the contacts i cast into this new stator works good i think. keeps the wires from breaking off exiting the mold.
i have a picture of the wincharger i found and purchased right 6volt deluxe everything but the tail it needs brushes but will turn out a volt or two spinning by hand.
new stator | 14 comments (14 topical)

Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by rpcancun on Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 01:49:26 AM MST

what are the dimensions of the new coils?
(hole diameter, leg width, height)
also what size mags?

Thx



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by outback on Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 04:58:28 PM MST

those coils are about 3" outside diameter 1/2" legs 2" inside running 2"x 1/2 round magnets
You can lead a horse to water,but you cant make him eat the trough.
[ Parent ]


Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by mtbandy on Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 05:00:48 AM MST

It also looks like there was also a coil in that old stator that wasn't connected? (the far one that still looks like fresh copper)



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by outback on Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 05:01:54 PM MST

yeah i wondered about that myself.could the rest burnt before it got to that one cauing the circuit to be open?
You can lead a horse to water,but you cant make him eat the trough.
[ Parent ]


Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Flux on Sun Apr 29, 2007 at 11:54:24 PM MST

I have a feeling that the good coil was best cooled and the one that shed its wire was the worst cooled. I have noticed before from some of Dan's pictures that one side seems to burn first.

My guess is that it was a burn out from overload and the nuts came loose after the stator lost strength.

Going to thicker wire should help a lot but if you are now running with less stall you may need to watch the furling to keep within the rating of your new stator.

I think you could have squashed the coils up into an egg shape, reduced the width of the holes and wound with even thicker wire to reduce the resistance even more, but going from #16 to #14 will be a big help.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by danlenox on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:00:18 PM MST

Has anyone thought of not casting the very centers of the coils?

Would this not allow for air distribution around the coil allowing them to cool better.  I would have to think that having all these heat generating coils cast into resin would tend to retain the heat...

[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by SamoaPower on Wed May 02, 2007 at 07:50:34 PM MST

This has been mentioned numerous times. The center (inside edge) only represents a small portion of the total coil surface area so the benefit would be small.

Even a 1/16" of resin over the major faces of the coils can raise their temperature 30-40^C.

The best answer is to not cast the stator at all. There are better ways.


[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by TomW on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:26:55 AM MST

samoa;

The best answer is to not cast the stator at all. There are better ways.

Perhaps you can suggest a few of them? Rather than just making the negative statement.

There seems to be good reason for encapsulating the coils, keeping vibration from scuffing off insulation, for one.

Cheers.

TomW

The Truth is the Truth, even if no one believes it; and a lie is a lie even if everyone believes it


[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by SamoaPower on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:07:49 PM MST

Already have - numerous times.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/3/27/212954/042

"Rather than just making the negative statement."

I don't see this as being negative. If my crusade against cast stators for machines larger than 8' results in some not having the trouble and expense of what's pictured above, I consider that a pretty positive step in the evolution of the axial flux alternator. Casting makes no sense for larger machines.

"There seems to be good reason for encapsulating the coils, keeping vibration from scuffing off insulation, for one."

Again, there are other ways just as effective without the cast drawbacks.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2006/10/21/61110/798

[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by CreativePower on Fri May 18, 2007 at 08:33:26 PM MST

Hi SamoaPower,

I am new to this board and am reading more than posting right now and I did read both your "A different Alternator Part1 and 2" but I couldn't find a part 3 and so I am wondering if you posted the results under a different title. Where you left off in part 2 was very interesting. As for the arguments that you made about the design - I completely agree - in all electrical equipment "heat kills" and no/limited thermo convection using a full resin seal is a bad idea (at least in my mind and experience).

Thanks!

DF


[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by SamoaPower on Fri May 18, 2007 at 11:29:33 PM MST

DF,

Thanks for the inquiry and I'm glad to see there's another proponent for the non-cast stator out there.

When I initially proposed that stator resin casting was contra-indicated, I thought there would be wide acceptance of the idea since the arguments were so obvious. I guess I grossly overestimated the acumen of the following of the Hugh/DanB design - seems almost cult-like.

I haven't tried to promote a particular alternative design, only that there ARE other alternatives without the disadvantages.

Even with the almost continuous stream of reports of stator failure, particularly for larger machines, the great majority of new construction reported here continue to use cast stators. Go figure.

My 16' machine progress has taken a somewhat different turn since I wrote Parts 1 and 2. Some thought there was an issue with unbalanced strand currents in layer-wound, multiple in-hand coils, resulting in circulating currents and increased losses. I decided this was worth investigating, so the order of construction was modified.

To test the circulating current hypothesis, it would be necessary to complete the magnet rotors and rig a test setup before completing the stator. Better to determine if this problem exists to a substantial degree, with my actual coils, before committing the remainder of the expensive square wire.

I suppose I should apologize to those who are interested, for the lack of continuity on this project.  Acqusition of materials for the rotors and ill health for a while, prevented very much progress. Never fear, it will go on (as long as I last).

I took advantage of this period of infirmity to put on my electronics hat and designed circuits and PC boards for numerous (8) projects that have long gone wanting.

Sorry that I can't give you more on the stator construction at the moment. I'm still firmly convinced it will be superior to the cast versions.

[ Parent ]



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by jimovonz on Sat May 19, 2007 at 01:45:12 AM MST

SamoaPower, I don't see why you take this view. I should think it is obvious why folk haven't flocked to produce non-cast stators. There are very few examples, to follow and even less documentation. Not every one has the knowledge, time, and or budget to experiment and prefer to follow a proven design. There are many examples of the 'Hugh/DanB design's that do appear to work and work well. I have followed your arguments and am in agreement (well perhaps I'm not so pedantic on the precise reproduction of aerofoils:). I have built cast stator turbines, converted motors of various types and even modifed comercial units. I fully intend to build my next turbine as a dual rotor along the lines you describe. I have also been developing electronic means to achieve similar objectives. Why so much concern about the dissapation of large quantities of heat, when the root of the problem is efficiency? Surely heat dissapation becomes a moot point with improved efficiency? MPPT controllers are a very good idea but I don't question 'the acumen of the following of the Hugh/DanB design' because every last man has not rushed out and built one.
I'm sure that if you finsh your design and it is successful and if you continue to document your progress as you have done, that more folk will follow. I think much the same will happen with MPPT controllers once workable designs become available. I don't think that calling into question peoples judgement over simply being cautious does much to further the cause. I think a lot of people get tired of hearing some of us harp on about our particular take on things when it seems that we could actually get on and do it with less effort than we take talking about it. Lead by example.
I look forward to reading more on the progress on your projects.

[ Parent ]


Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Devo on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:19:09 AM MST

I have done away with the resin on the magnet rotor going with Gorilla Glue & the overnight JB weld. Both have worked well. The magnets in the open(painted) then work like cooling fins just like a brake rotor.

I haven't got there yet but in the larger rotors I am using now I intend to open holes near the centre of the magnet disc (like a car rotor) as the magnets will only draw as much air as is available to be drawn in. I have no opinion on the resin non resin stators except that resin is quick & easy for me & if you move enough air past it wire can go well beyond it's recomended Amperage rating.

Your new Stator looks good , the only thing I wonder about is the coils are 1/4 smaller than the mags all the way around which may cause cancellation (unless I read wrong). I think if they where taller that would allow the inside 1/4" to be active more of the time.

Devo
   



Re: new stator (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by CmeBREW on Fri May 04, 2007 at 08:53:38 AM MST

I think those are some good interesting possibilities from Samoapower. Personally, I will be triing to leave the center holes of the coils open in my next stator, very soon, because I believe the copper will transmit the heat THRU the copper coils (sideways) to get the heat dissipated out the center holes. It will be that old fiberglass resin method. Also, I just made (welded) like a 'cooling fan' on the inside center of my magnet rotors (dual) to pull fresh air in thru multiple holes on both rotors. It works very well. You can feel cooling air even at only 200rpm and alot of air coming out the sides at 400 rpm plus. Its probably been done before. It has 5 'cooling fins' welded in the center. Also, I epoxied the mags down for better gap with cooling. I'll post it most likely Sunday to ask everyone's help with the number of turns for my 16ga. coils. (I'm still quite stupid)  ---All these considerations are very interesting!  



new stator | 14 comments (14 topical)
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