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Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher volt/RPM ratio?


By harriskevine, Section Mechanical
Posted on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 05:02:06 AM MST
Looking to get higher voltage per RPM out of my Ametek.

Is it possible to modify a 30V Ametek to get a better voltage/RPM ratio.  I've seen a bunch of homemade alternators online that can produce 12V at 150 RPM, but my Ametek seems to not hit that point until at least 350 RPM.  The problem is, it doesn't hit that point as often as I would like in my backyard.  Is there something that I can do to get a better volt/RPM ratio out of it?
Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher volt/RPM ratio? | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher vol (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Flux on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 01:21:29 AM MST
(User Info)

I don't want to disappoint you but if your trouble is lack of wind you will not cure it with a lower speed generator.

Those Amteks are really only suitable for about 4ft prop and you should easily get 350 rpm from decent 4ft blades.

If you are playing with pvc blades or something you may see the improvement you need but cut in at 150 rpm is very slow for a small mill. If the trouble is lack of wind you may hit stall and be no better off.

Obtaining volts is only part of the deal, to obtain power you need wind and if this is low down in your back yard you may have no useful wind.

Flux



Re: Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher vol (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by harriskevine (harriskevine@ou.edu) on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 06:43:42 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.thekevdog.com

Lack of wind isn't actually too much of a problem, but the lack of 20+ mph winds is a problem.  I think my blades may be part of the problem though.  I cut them down from about 3 ft. to 2 and now they seem to be working better, but they still aren't hitting charging voltage as often as I would like.

[ Parent ]


Re: Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher vol (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by johnlm on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 07:28:22 PM MST
(User Info)

When you talk about cutting your blades down from 3 ft to 2 ft, (implying that the blades now rotate faster) are you cutting off the ends only or are you also recarving the face angle?  If you are just cutting off the ends please explain to me how this increases the rotational speed.  

Thanks

johnlm

[ Parent ]



Re: Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher vol (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by johnlm on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 07:51:39 PM MST
(User Info)

I assume you are using a prop that is not the same pitch angle from tip to root.

[ Parent ]


Re: Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher vol (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by harriskevine (harriskevine@ou.edu) on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 11:08:26 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.thekevdog.com

I'm using a set of PVC blades.  The outer 10" or so of the blades were at about the same angle.  I'm not sure why, but I noticed immediate increases in shaft speed after cutting that 10" off.  Am I doing something wrong?

[ Parent ]


Re: Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher vol (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by Ungrounded Lightning Rod on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 07:11:32 PM MST
(User Info)

If twist is too low the outer portion of the blades ends up pushing the air rather than being pushed by it, stealing power from the inner part rather than contributing power.

Sounds like you had the twist wrong.  Redoing the blades at full length with the right twist on the outer portion should give you a bunch more power.  (The outer portion of the blades is the most important because it has the most swept area per unit length.)

[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 02:02:30 PM MST
(User Info)

Instead of higher voltage try charging a 6volt
battery charge 2 6 volt batterys then put them in series....easiest solution for what you have
all different ways to skin a cat or charge a
battery.
              ( :>) Norm.
( :>) Norm


Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by harriskevine (harriskevine@ou.edu) on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 06:40:44 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.thekevdog.com

I like this idea a lot.  Is it possible to charge in parallel and drain in series simultaneously?

[ Parent ]


Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by TomW on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 06:46:33 PM MST
(User Info)

harriskevin;


I like this idea a lot.  Is it possible to charge in parallel and drain in series simultaneously?


Therein lies the rub. Not very simple to do, or maybe impossible.

Cheers.

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 01:54:38 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Would This work ?




W o o f -={(

[ Parent ]


Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by snowcrow on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 07:21:56 AM MST
(User Info)

Hey Woof, I think it would work if he put one rectifier bridge between the batteries and the other bridge suppling the outside pole. It could work as long as he doesn't exceed the max. current of the rectifier bridge.





[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by SamoaPower on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 02:42:48 PM MST
(User Info)

Sorry Woofer, it won't work. The path shown will short the gererator, which is DC for the Ametek, by the way.






[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by snowcrow on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 08:19:17 PM MST
(User Info)

Will this work SamoaPower?







[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by s4w2099 (movlw0x13h@yahoo.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 09:39:12 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.s4wsbox.com/

it does not look like that the genny will get shorted by this but remember that while being discharged the bridge will drop 1.4V so your nominal output would be 10.6 and thats almost shutdown for an inverter.

Dont think its a good idea. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by SamoaPower on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 10:02:00 PM MST
(User Info)

Sorry snowcrow, this won't do it either. Although it will charge both batteries in parallel, there won't be 12 volts available since there is no current path between the batteries.

Where you show 12V will actually be the generator voltage less two diode drops when the wind blows and 0V otherwise. The batteries are effectively isolated for discharge.

[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by ZooT on Sun Jul 29th, 2007 at 09:45:08 AM MST
(User Info)

The ametek tape drive motors produce DC rather than AC?

I've kinda' been waiting for this to come up as I read a reference to ametek motors producing DC straight off the leads at otherpower on their comparison of alternator types, but thought maybe I just misunderstood exactly what they were saying......

[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by TomW on Sun Jul 29th, 2007 at 10:25:32 AM MST
(User Info)

Zoot;

The ametek tape drive motors produce DC rather than AC?

Yes, the Ametek produces DC thru mechanical commutator / brush setup. Still needs blocking diode to keep it from motoring.

Cheers.

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]



Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by ZooT on Sun Jul 29th, 2007 at 02:41:01 PM MST
(User Info)

Thanks there Tom.
I was kinda' wondering about that, and it'll be nice to get just a bit more out of my ametek 30 with a homebrewed (ala Hugh and Dan) furling tail that I put up last weekend :)

[ Parent ]


Re: 6 volt solution (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Flux on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 01:58:27 AM MST
(User Info)

As I expected your blades are most of your problem. If you must use bits of pvc pipe then you will need a lower speed generator and you will have to accept lower output.

Try your existing Amtek with a 6v battery and see if you get acceptable output. You have reduced your chances now by reducing the blade length. ( power goes up with square of rotor diameter)

If it works well enough at 6v then you have found your problem and have lots of choices ( probably none of which you will like).

As Tom said it is virtually impossible to charge at 6v and take load at 12v at the same time. You can use a boost converter to raise the voltage from a 6 v battery or you can boost the generator output to charge a 12v battery. ( loss incurred in either case).

You can rewind the motor to cut in at lower speed but it is not a simple undertaking and may in fact be difficult depending on the commutator connections ( probably staked or crimped).

You can build a low speed alternator to suit the miserable blades or you can build a decent set of blades from wood that will work directly with the Amtek as it is.

I think you need to keep prop diameter up in a poor wind area rather than trying to raise speed with a small diameter, which makes your wind problem worse.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Getting 12 volts with 5 mph wind (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Norm (peppysue@suite224.net) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:21:46 AM MST
(User Info)

harriskevine....sounds like you're in a poor
wind location...as am I.  
  It is possible to hoist a weight with your
WT ....then drive the Ametec from the weight
fast enough to generate enough to charge a 12 volt
battery....now to take it one step further, it
is also possible to be winding the weight up
at the same time....Yes...eventually it will
unwind faster that it would be wound up...
but...your WT would have a very low cut in speed
even a 3mph wind would be lifting the weight !
   With a little thought and determination...
the seemingly impossible becomes a fun type
challenge.
               ( :>) Norm.
( :>) Norm


Possible to modify a 30V Ametek for higher volt/RPM ratio? | 20 comments (20 topical, 0 editorial)
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