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Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie


By tdmack, Section Rants & Opinion
Posted on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 04:41:05 AM MST
a great little turbine

To the folks who have purchased our plans we regret that a moderator of this board is of the opinion that you are suckers.  I suppose that puts you in the same group that has purchased other plans and how too books including that written by Hugh Piggott.  

"Just a general opinion on buying plans. They seem like sucker bait to me."
TomW

This is of course his opinion and he is entitled to it.  

The comments followed a review of our book/plans in this section.  We have no particular problem with a review unless it contains misinformation.  In the review it is mentioned and commented on that the writer was disappointed that the book didn't include printed circuit diagrams and the code that resides in the micro-controller and that he didn't find out until after the purchase.  The writer included a link to the e-bay auction in which he purchased our book.  If you follow the link, look at and read the auction you will notice in large red letters at the bottom of the page:

"This book explains in detail how to build Breezy 5.5 from components and material. The book has the necessary schematics to wire the motor to relays and the micro-controller. It does not teach you how to build and program micro-controllers, rewind motors and make them into generators, make slip-rings, relays, capacitors, or torque limiters. These items are components and producing these components is beyond the scope of this book. "

A statement about the micro-controller.  When we began development of Breezy 5.5 PLCs were still pretty expensive.  We designed our own controller based on a PIC micro processor.  Since then the price of  PLCs has dropped significantly.  There is certainly no reason that you have to purchase the micro- controller from us.

We have been beaten several times for using wind speed at ground level as a reference for turbine performance.   We have explained our reasoning for this and apologized for the confusion it has caused.

Again we continue to offer an open invitation to all who wish to see one of the turbines in operation. You are welcome to bring your own meters, etc. We ask that you call first so that we can schedule your visit.

Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:19:42 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

I've read you're website through and through... and I've email y'all...  
It's pretty good stuff.  your 'economics page' is a crock of you know what in my opinion (just my opinion).  But yes - overall, its mostly good stuff.



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:25:45 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

I should add - I think you probably have the best 'grid tie' plans out there and I hope  to see your stuff someday.  But you post impossible power output figures (even when you're talking about 'ground windspeed'.  I wish you'd get a bit more realistic...)  You're page about economics really bugs me....

[ Parent ]


Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 11:44:27 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

http://www.prairieturbines.com/economics.htm

That page - makes claims that violate laws of physics by at least a few hundred percent..
I really do think you're stuff is neat and I expect that you all are very enthusiastic about wind power and have something that really works fairly well...  but it'd be better in my opinion to be honest (or pessimistic) about things rather than to put up a page like that which... in my opinion, is very wrong and misleading.  (it probably sells lots of plans though...)

[ Parent ]



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Capt Slog (Capt.Slog(at this)gmail.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 07:05:35 AM MST
(User Info)

I'm just a regular forum reader, I'm not connected with any company trying to sell anything and so you are not a competitor in any way.  I hope you do well selling your product, you've obviously spent a lot of time researching it and putting it together, so good luck to you.

What I fail to understand is this;

Why, when you have "....... been beaten several times for using wind speed at ground level as a reference for turbine performance." do you continue to do so?

You even conceed that it is confusing!

Reading your production graph on the economics page makes it even more so.  You say at the top of this page:-

"The data shows that we are near the top of charts on average wind speeds with 13.5mph at 10 meters and 17.5mph at 40 meters.
Breezy 5.5s rotor is working at a height of approximately 61' or just less than 20 meters and we will use an average wind speed of 15mph to calculate the average annual output. We know that at a wind speed of 15mph we are generating 3.6kw (3600watts) of power."

OK I follow that, it makes sense the higher up you go, it's going to get a bit more windy (double ground level speed I have trouble with, but we'll leave that for now).

So why then, does your graph have 3.6kW at 15mph AND yet also "The graph above shows that Breezy 5.5 comes on line when the wind speed is between 6 and 8mph (gnd spd)"

Make your minds up.  Which is it? "gnd spd" or the wind speed at 20 meters? You can't have both, surely?
"Slowly changing the world, one watt at a time!"



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by TomW on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 07:26:16 AM MST
(User Info)

td;

Well, excuse me for having an opinion as a user. They were stated as such and were general statements.

I want the board members to know that your only story posts to this board seem to be to promote this commercial product. Of your 17 comments, 12 are about your product. In my opinion that makes you a freeloading advertiser and not a contributor. Again, my personal opinion. I obviously feel you have a right to defend your product and that is why the posts remain despite my personal opinions on this.

As DanB noted you seem to be less than, shall I say, honest about your economics. This is another part of why I have no desire to see you pimping here. You may be the worlds most altruistic people, with only desire to do good, but you sure don't look like anything but a predatory company preying on the current renewables craze. Again, the personal opinion of a user. I expect to get a good bit of support on this so fire away if you must.

Remember, you came to us, we did not come to you.

I still think purchasing plans is a fools quest. Any plans.

Its your story so I will leave it at that.

Cheers

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by tdmack (timATprairieturbinesDOTcom) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 08:58:26 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.prairieturbines.com

Tom

I have contended that you are entitled to you opinion, in any capacity.  As for using the board to "pimp" our product your investigation failed to uncover the fact that each time I commented (with one exception) or posted was in our defense of our turbine or grid-tied induction generation.  When I created a new thread it was because by the time I noticed the original there would already have been 80 to 100 folks who had read it that would probably not come back.  Rather than post to a dead thread I would create a new one.  To me it just seemed logical.

About commenting on other things I guess I am prone to keeping my keyboard shut unless it's a topic with which I have some knowledge.  In general though I have found that by the time I read the postings they have been responded to in most cases beyond anything useful that I might add.  

I will concede that I probably have not shared enough with the board with respect to grid-tied induction generation.  I will make and attempt to improve.

Marketing our turbine is an area which I will admit that frankly I am not good at.  The phrase "identify your limitations" could not apply more.  I will be pulling the "economics" pages from the website.   In the end the Breezy design and its performance speaks for itself as those of you that have visited the test site have found.

Tim
www.prairieturbines.com



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 11:24:34 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Hi Tim -
again - just my opinion...  I've looked over your plans and like I said before, I think it's pretty neat stuff and the only thing out there on the topic.  It would be totally cool if you popped in here everynow and then and share your experience with this stuff.

I'm glad you're pulling the 'economics' page down (or at least change it a bit) because I don't think it does much for your credibity.  I have no doubt that you're machine is a good performer - especially considering the cost and the simplicity.  Next time Im out east I should love to have a tour if that's OK!

[ Parent ]



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by thefinis (thefinis@hotmail.com) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 03:59:41 PM MST
(User Info)

Tim
Keep posting and sharing info. While grid tie has been talked about much here it has been done very little. I have said in the past that I thought that ya'll had done good work and research on the development of your machine. It is a workable plan and glad to see you thinking about changing some of the posted figures.

While here you are under the microscope of harsh taskmasters who like real figures instead of in the marketing world where many makers like to base claims on pie in the sky figures. I think that even in the turbine marketing world reality output/input figures will hold up and sell especially as more of your buyer built units come on line. You are actually selling what many of the newbies want anyway which is a machine they can put up and then sell electricity back to the grid.

Wind power is free. What do you mean it isn't cheap and easy?

I wish there was a set of standards to judge turbines by like ouput per sq ft of swept area at 15 mph.

Take care
Finis
Texas born and bred
[ Parent ]



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by johnlm on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 03:42:30 PM MST
(User Info)

Several times on the prarie web site it states the turbine comes online at 6 to 8 mph and at that point produces 2.2KW.  Is this a redundant typo?  Did you mean 0.22KW?  Upon looking at the pics it appears your prop diameter is in the area of 20 feet.  If you can get 2.2KW out of a 20 ft diameter prop at 6 -8 mph wind speed I would think you would not have to try to sell stuff off your web site as every wind turbine manufacturer in the world would be paying you for this un-believable blade technology.

If you run the numbers you will see where you exceed the Betz limit by a significant margin (over 4X at 8 mph)with this claim, and exceed the average prop performance by a factor of nearly 10X.

I could however believe your claim of performance of 5.5KW at 23 mph, if I could somehow believe the 6 - 8 mph figure.

I guess I have to agree with the folks that that are skeptical here.  If you cant get the basic numbers in the ball park, how is one to believe the rest of the claims.

johnlm



Re: Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by vawtman (vawtman(at)charter(dot)net) on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 05:02:31 PM MST
(User Info)

Tim
 Im wondering what your customers that built these faced when they get to the point of approvals to tie?Im a homebrew type guy also.
 Mark



Breezy 5.5 Induction Grid -Tie | 10 comments (10 topical, 0 editorial)
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