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Dump Control / LVD Circuit


By ghurd, Section Diaries
Posted on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 05:25:21 PM MST
The Controller Circuit Unveiled

I guess it's ready.



The circuit design was intended for the smaller systems.  
It is expected to fill the obvious gap between NO controller and a complicated or expensive controller.
The major design parameters were proper function, versatility, simplicity, ease in understanding, trouble shooting, and obtaining parts. And low cost.



The schematic is a virtual map of the circuit board.  Those who prefer a more standard format probably don't need this circuit.  
Simple. The PCB was laid out to minimize risk of solder bridges. Nothing has more than 3 legs. Everything except the voltage divider output is On or Off.
Some mosfets will have a different pin configuration.  Be sure to get the G, S, and D in the proper holes.



Understanding the circuit, a crash course:

The rectifier diode protects the circuit against reverse polarity.
The Green LED shows the circuit is connected to the battery.
The Yellow LED shows the circuit is dumping excess power through the dump load, or the item connected to the LVD has power.
The first Zener diode and the pot is a voltage divider used to monitor the battery voltage.
The second Zener diode protects the ZM and 2N7000 mosfet from over voltage conditions.

When the voltage from the pot to the `ZM' is lower than 4.6V, the ZM grounds the 2N7000 gate and the remainder of the circuit is off.

When the voltage from the pot to the `ZM' is higher than 4.6V, the ZM is open and the 2N7000 gate has 5.1V. This turns on the rest of the circuit.
The P Channel mosfet sees low voltage at its gate and it turns on.  It supplies voltage to the power mosfet gate, turning it on.  The dump load is now on.

The capacitor provides enough delay in cycling to ensure the circuit does not go into excessive oscillation.

The extra steps (from N to P to N) provide a fast hard square switching, and allow for the use of numerous and various models of N channel power mosfets.
Meaning the expensive power mosfets need not be logic level or have an ultra low resistance (if the amps being dumped through it are low enough and the heat sink is large enough).  Even a lowly IRF530 can be added to supply 2A to another dump load.

Resistor RX determines the hysteresis.  The lower the ohms of RX, the tighter the hysteresis.
Some people or systems want a tighter hysteresis, like 0.06V.
Others desire a little more tolerance, like a hysteresis of 0.15V.
Using the circuit as a low voltage disconnect, a hysteresis of 0.6 or 0.8V is good for me.

A brief parts list.
D1 blocking diode=1N4001 to 1N4007, LED1 is green, LED2 is yellow, LED resistors R1 and R2 = 3.3K (between 2K and 10K), C1= 10uF 16V (between 2.2 and 47uF, 10V minimum), ZD1 and ZD2 = 5.1V,  R3=51K, R4= 0 to 500 ohms (lower with many power fets or higher for LVD use, centered on 50 to 100 ohms), R5= 3K to 10K (3K with less hysteresis, or 10K with higher hysteresis, even 100K for use with a low power load for an LVD circuit).
N-fet=2N7000 or similar.  About anything that can take +-20V at the gate.
P-fet=BSS92, BS250 or similar.  About anything that can take +
-20V at the gate.

Power N-fet=IRFZ44N or similar.  Any power N-fet can be used, provided the current it carries causes less than the watts of heat it can tolerate and dissipate.  The IRFZ44N is a personal favorite because it is cheap, has low resistance, causes less heat, and can take reasonable (6A) current without much heat generation.

I like using a separate dump load for each power N-fet.  I have never seen a failure using an IRFZ44N supplying a 6A load.  I have seen 5 or 6 parallel IRFZ44Ns consistently fail while conducting less than 20A peak.
A higher hysteresis (like 0.08 or 0.1V) will minimize the chances of a power fet failure.

The RX resistor/hysteresis values.  1.8K/1.0V, 3K/0.8V, 3.9K/0.62V, 51K/0.14V, 100K/0.1V, 150K/0.08V, 180K/0.06V, 220K/0.04V.
Values for RX below 1.8K are getting near the danger zone and are not recommended.
Values above 220K are simply not needed and could cause problems.

It is of the utmost importance the wires for the circuit are separate from the wires supplying the dump load.  Otherwise the circuit will see the voltage drop from the dump load as a reduction in battery voltage.  The wires MUST be separate.

A fly-back or freewheel diode must be included for many dump or LVD loads, or the voltage spike will ruin the power fet.  It is not only for this circuit, it seems to be common for many switching circuits.

Calibrating the unit.  I suggest calibration without a dump load connected.  If the yellow LED is lighted, the dump load should be on.
A variable voltage supply is easiest. They can be easily made from a LM317 or LM780X (7805, 7806, etc).
A friend has no access to a variable voltage supply.  He used a running automobile to obtain 14.15V.  Simply 100% Genius.  The voltage on some cars (mine) can be slightly varied by turning the headlights or A/C on.

Everyone has their own ideas of what is best.  My personal preferences would be...
About 0.08V hysteresis for a dump load, for no particular reason except I think it is enough to accept the charge current, drain the surface charge, and not actually drain the battery (much).
About 0.62V for an LVD, because it is usually enough for what I do, without being too fast.  It allows for the loaded battery to reach 12.2V (about where hard sulfation can occur) before disconnecting, and 12.82V before reconnecting (to allow for a bit of voltage due to surface charge).

A switch between the circuit and battery will allow for manual equalization.

The unit can be used for a dump regulator, an LVD, a controller for charging a second or third battery, or about any combination of the above.

It will be available as a 150W kit.  Waiting for a few more parts to show up.
The kit will include the PCB and parts shown, an assortment of resistors, 2 power N-fets, some heat shrink tubing, LED retainer clips, etc.  
The kit will not include the actual dump load, enclosure, switch, wires, etc.
Looks like $12.50.  I'll get it up in Classifieds soon.

Anyone using this circuit feel free to jump in with information or pictures!

Open for questions.
G-

Dump Control / LVD Circuit | 52 comments (52 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by dinges on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 11:53:08 AM MST
(User Info)

What system voltages does it accomodate ?

Glad to see you have finally finished it and put it out here in the open. I know it has taken quite a few hours of your time. Thanks for that.



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by ghurd on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 12:13:44 PM MST
(User Info)

Thanks Peter,

It is for a 12V system as shown.  
The empty holes are for 24V modifications, that will come later.

I also see I did not identify the ZM as a ZM33064,

Or mention the trigger voltage is set by adjusting the blue pot.
Setting the pots center pin to ground at 2.7K gives close to 14V.

G-


[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Bruce S (bruce(dot)stahl <at>gmail (dot)(com)) on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 01:11:32 PM MST
(User Info)

G-
I agree with Peter, glad to see you've got this up here:-)
For wooferhound, this is the circuit this I use with the HF PDU. This unit lends itself perfectly to be attached to the 15V speaker area.
ALL; This I have adjusted as G-says for my output to be compatible with the battery packs that I rebuild from the packs that Nothin to Lose speaks about. Since I do use it as a dump load, I have the hysterysis set at the .08v level, Ghurd has on the instructions he sent me to build one, a sort of guide line of Rx equals hys*** chart, and since I stack 12 of these per pack to try and stay as close to a fully charged SLA as possible, or at least so the inverters don't see LVD, adjusted for 14V.

Oh and and for those who have the 5 watt VW panels and simialr units, the LM317 , since it can take a large voltage swing, works perfect to send a constant voltage output into this little gem, and TADA you have a backup solar charger :-)

Ghurd:>Let me know when your parts arrive , I'm still in need of those 3 other units.
I used the last of the units I have to make due for the HF controller thatis still showing only 3volts :-/ This helped out to keep the neighbors batts charged until he gets a real controller.

Cheers
Bruce S
PS> put the little video up here, it shows the LEDs flickering just like they should.



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by ghurd on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 04:45:41 PM MST
(User Info)

In the interest of bandwidth, and to avoid admitting I don't know how to post a video, I submit this photo.  
Maybe my wife will upload a video of a prototype blinking a light bulb to utube and post a link.  The resolution is poor, but it is just a light bulb...
Blinking very fast. :-)

This photo shows the circuit in action, though a bit in reverse. (I said it was versatile)

The 'dump load' is the coil of a DPDT relay.  The N.O. contacts are in series with the solar panels.  I guess it could be more properly thought of as an LVD.
The controller circuit has a 0.62V hysteresis.  When the battery reaches it's maximum voltage, the "dump load" relay coil energizes and disconnects the PVs from the battery until the lower set point (decided by the hysteresis) is reached.  It effectively does not dump excess generated power, it simply disconnects it from the battery.  (not good for wind power)  When the system reaches the lower hysteresis voltage, the LVD activates, disconnecting the relay coil and reconnecting the PVs to the battery.

I should point out that this is NOT a Permanent Installation.  I do not trust relays for long term and fast cycles, especially $10 generic RatShak relays!  This is cycling about 20~50 times per minute under good sun, less in low sun, more or less if the freezer is running, and none at night.

It is only a quick fix to do what needed done at the time, with the materials I had available at the time.  It will soon be replaced with a MPPT.
BTW, it is still up and running as shown, with no problems. Guessing 10 weeks now.  
Hey! I've honestly been busy!

The circuit is show in the lower left.  The ice cube relay is in the lower center.  The AL security light housing is acting as a heatsink for the double ~ connected bridge rectifier.

It primarily supplies 20A of 12V solar for a SunDanzer DCF165 chest freezer.
Secondary uses are currently FANS, cell phones, cordless tools, PDA, nimh/nicd chargers, etc.  
Regardless, most of the power available at this time is not being used.

G-





[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by fungus (info@reenergy.co.uk) on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 01:35:27 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.reenergy.co.uk/

Nice that its all out now :-)
I was wondering what the open holes were for... not sure how much use a 24v one would be but its nice to have options..
"Anyone using this circuit feel free to jump in with information or pictures!"
Used a 150w car heater on mine, picture of the controller in the case below..


'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by ghurd on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 05:03:10 PM MST
(User Info)

Hey Angus,

Options are nice.

Great photo!  Shows the open holes and parts without glare. It must have taken 100 tries.  Thanks!

It also shows the 10uF 16V tant cap included in the kit.  The earlier pics show a smaller cap for clarity.
G-

 

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by DamonHD (d@hd.org) on Sat Aug 25th, 2007 at 03:31:32 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.earth.org.uk/

Thanks G for sending me the diagram before: really cleared up in my mind what was needed!  I'm still all solar so far, but with wind will come some variant on your dump controller!

Rgds

Damon



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by coldspot on Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 01:24:28 PM MST
(User Info)

ghurd-
Thanks for sharing, your great!!!
Mark me down for one, for now, maybe more later.
Are set up for Pay-Pal??
 



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by ghurd on Mon Aug 27th, 2007 at 10:45:01 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks for the nice words everyone.

PayPal, yes.

Coldspot, check your frankenfurder? email.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by ZooT on Tue Sep 4th, 2007 at 11:38:13 AM MST
(User Info)

Er uh......if you shoot me an email with the paypal info I'll buy one :)

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by claude on Sun Aug 26th, 2007 at 04:39:34 PM MST
(User Info)

Nice work G!

I witnessed the development of this baby and now here it is, a great circuit with a lot of potential. Everyone should know that all this was made with great care and countless hours of testing. G proves itself worthy once again.

"Commercials"
When my power-generating abilities will rise up to a noticeable amount I'll surely use G's controller for my charging needs! :-))

Best regards,
Claude



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Tue Aug 28th, 2007 at 01:00:14 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

Fantastic - just what I was looking for!

Can someone explain what to do with the 'mystery holes'?  I am running 24V, so would need to modify the circuit to handle that...
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by ghurd on Tue Aug 28th, 2007 at 08:44:21 AM MST
(User Info)

The 24V modifications have not been tested.  So this is all theory.
I don't see why it wouldn't work.

The trace between the empty holes needs cut.
A 14 or 16V 1W Zener is soldered into the holes.
ZD1 is changed to 19V.
R1 is changed to 7.5K.
RX maybe 20K for a dump load controller, 1.8K for LVD.
Possibly a small cap paralleled with the 16V 1W Zener, in the same holes.

Remember. 24V has NOT been tested. All theory.
G-


[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by bsafe on Tue Sep 25th, 2007 at 07:51:31 PM MST
(User Info)

What gauge wire do you recommend for the connections?

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by ghurd on Wed Sep 26th, 2007 at 07:37:57 AM MST
(User Info)

About #18 or #20, stranded.  Sometimes #18 can be snug.
I use #21.5 because I have 10,000' of gray and orange (I am a sucker for a great sale).

It doesn't carry many amps. Depends on the hysteresis and choice of resistors.
Not dumping takes about 3.5ma.  Dumping takes about 7ma to 12ma.
There is a larger surge current when the power fets first turn on, but it doesn't seem to cause any problem even with a 10' long pair of #21.5 wires to the battery.

The power carrying wires need to be heavier, at least #14. Depends on how many amps they will carry.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by indalohousse (indalohouse@tiscali.co.uk) on Thu Oct 4th, 2007 at 05:58:25 AM MST
(User Info)

please send me a link to where i can order this kit or board  indalohouse@tiscali.co.uk



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by RCpilot (rcpilot (at) rollanet (dot) org) on Sun Oct 7th, 2007 at 10:25:24 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.rollanet.org/~rcpilot

Ghurd, Several users here have said that this will work for a Battery Vent Fan. I am needing a circuit that turns my fan on at a set voltage: somewhere between 13 and 14 volts, and turn it off when the voltage drops below the set point. Will this circuit work for that purpose? And, if it will, where do I send money to order one. I have PayPal.

Thanks, Kelly
Pray every day!



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by ghurd on Sun Oct 7th, 2007 at 11:40:49 AM MST
(User Info)

It will work fine for that.

I can be contacted through ghurd1 (at) yahoo (dot) com.  
Put "Controller" in the subject.

My PayPal account is different.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by snowcrow on Tue Oct 9th, 2007 at 04:19:14 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Ghurd, I to am interested in a couple of these little gems too!! I also have a Pay Pal account and will email you.

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by indalohousse (indalohouse@tiscali.co.uk) on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 06:46:36 AM MST
(User Info)

thanks Ghurd  recived them fine    i have built one and i see the dump led comming on just under 5v on the middle of the zm    i have battery connected but no incomming power   what else do i need to to set it up please?  i have meters / adjustable psu and scope     my windmill is not on its tower yet so need to make the adjustments on the bench    ps   where exactly are you supposed to connect the windmill or generator?   regards rob



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by ghurd on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 07:56:32 AM MST
(User Info)

The windmill goes straight to the battery, and should be considered a completely separate circuit.
The windmill charges the battery.
The controller drains the battery, when necessary, just enough to keep it from over charging.
The only thing they have in common is the battery.

Set the adjustable PSU to exactly the voltage you want the battery maximum to be.
Adjust the pot until the dump LED lights up.
You can check it by turning the PSU voltage up and down, while watching the LED go on and off.

Example:  Say you decided you don't want the battery past 14.40V. Set the PSU at 14.39V.
Adjust the pot, slowly, until the yellow LED lights up.
Adjust the PSU voltage down until the yellow LED goes off.
Slowly adjust the PSU voltage up until the yellow LED lights up. Check the voltage is the same as intended.

Without an adjustable PSU, it can be set, or tested, with a tiny 12V battery, like 1.3 or 7AH.  Assemble a small dump load, such as a 12V 2.1A #1156 tail light bulb. Charge the battery with a cheap unregulated 12 to 18V DC, 100ma to 500ma wall-wart.
The dump load must take considerably more amps than the wall-wart can supply.
Watch as the battery voltage rises.  If the yellow LED is on too early, adjust it until it shuts off.
When the battery reaches the desired maximum voltage, adjust the pot until the LED light up.  The bulb will flicker or glow, maybe not enough to see.  But the battery voltage will be stable from then on.
Be careful the wall-wart does not become disconnected from the battery while it is still connected to the controller.

Also. Some people may find the battery voltage in their running car is what they want for the RE battery.  Turning on the head lights, A/C, or both, sometimes will 'adjust' the voltage a bit.
With NO dump load connected to the circuit, connect the circuit to the battery. Slowly adjust the pot until the yellow LED lights up.  Done.
(Sean- Thanks for that!)

G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by indalohousse (indalohouse@tiscali.co.uk) on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 08:17:51 AM MST
(User Info)

Fantastic   thats clarified it a whole heap    I will have a go tonight if i can, btw i found some 50 Ohm massive resistors   which i intend to use as my dump loads   you can see one in the photo on my Diary post  inside the bottom of the monitoring box    http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/10/12/91539/946     these were salvaged from those huge UPS's i mentioned in the emails i sent you    i take it these are more than man enough for one for each power mosfet    regards and as always  and thanks for your advice

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by ghurd on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 08:28:25 AM MST
(User Info)

They are 50 ohms and certainly man enough for the power they will see at 12V.
But 14.4V / 50 ohms = 0.288A. They will only dump about 4W each.  :-(
Each fet could handle 20 of them in parallel, no problem.

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#24)
by indalohousse (indalohouse@tiscali.co.uk) on Thu Oct 25th, 2007 at 08:47:08 AM MST
(User Info)

ok so i should look be aiming for low resistance and high current handeling  bility    i saw an example of using small lengths of heating wire salvaged from a wall heater  and a fan to cool the whole shindig    this sort of thing.  I will search the forum for more ideas and get my best salvage head on    thanks Ghurd   and even more thanks for your kits   cant see how u can sell them at that price    i cant get the components  in the UK for less than your selling the whole kit         so a big CHEERS to you :)

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#25)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 at 12:03:09 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

Hi ghurd.  Firstly, thanks for all you have done on this!
Secondly, could you post a close up relatively hires photo of the assembled PCB? (similar to view of CtrlInHand.jpg.

It would be helpful to double check things during assembly.  Thanks!
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#26)
by wooferhound (tim((NoSpamAt))wooferhound.com) on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 at 01:56:18 AM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

Yes, I agree
I got 2 kits from you
The first one I assembled incorrectly
And fixed it by resoldering a coupla componets
anytime you resolder something
it's not as good the second time
not to mention the heat
W o o f -={(

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#27)
by ghurd on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 at 07:09:17 AM MST
(User Info)

OK, close-up of a 12V version.
Don't go by the resistor colors, because I'm not sure what this one was for.
The bead cap C1 is not as large as the one in the kit.

South Easter, the 24V version has the extra Zener with the stripe on the left (near the pot), and remember to cut the trace on the rear between the empty holes.





[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#28)
by TomW on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 at 07:45:42 AM MST
(User Info)

ghurd;

I keep forgetting to contact you about the status of the 24 volt version we spoke of once. I am probably well behind the curve on your progress but am still interested. I use both a small 12 volt system [for wireless internet and its router] and a larger 24 volt system. I usually charge the 12 volt system every 3 weeks or so using an auto charger off the inverter. I wondered if some combination of your controller[s] could charge the 12 volt bank thru a dropping resistor when it is low and the 24 volt bank is high?

Maybe get an email off to you if I can find your email amongst my ocean of email. Not concerned about efficiency of wasting power in a dropping resistor since it will only run rarely.

The charging bit would be the inverse of your "LVD" or a "LVC" on the 12 volt side and a feed 12 volt system setting from dump load control  the 24 volt system. I might be cracked but it seems it would work without too much hair pulling? Basically the 12 volt system low voltage condition  turns on to accept charge and if the 24 volt system has voltage greater than X it also turns on. The controllers are in series so both conditions need to be true to charge the 12 volt system. Ok confused yet??

Cheers.

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#29)
by ghurd on Mon Nov 5th, 2007 at 09:00:19 AM MST
(User Info)

Hey Tom,
A couple 24V's are up and running as dump load controllers.
Do you IRC guys stay up late thinking of ways to keep me confused???

I'm sure it would work with a relay carrying the 12V charge current. I prefer fets, and have an idea or 2, but it could just as easy make a lot of Majik Smoke.

It might run more often than you expect?  If the 12V battery starts recharging at say 12.3V, and goes until 13.3V, then it would drop a little faster than it does now.
If the 24V has a lot of surface charge, drawing from them to the 12V could drop the 24V to the point of turning off
Keeping the 12V charging current low would help.  Or I could jack up the circuit for a larger than 1V hysteresis (if I can find papers from a year ago that I probably pitched because >1V was too much).

Charging the low 12V would only take 1 kit. Charging the low 12V when the 24V is high would take 2 kits.

And just now I thought of an inside out way to do it too...
Dang.  I managed to confuse myself!
I run through some idea's and shoot you an email.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#34)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 03:26:56 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

So could this setup be used to solve the problem of running 12V appliances with a 24V system? (by running 24V to the point of demand, and then having a box with a small 12V battery and a circuit in LVC mode)

If so, could the 12V battery by replaced with a big capacitor?
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za
[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#36)
by TomW on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 10:03:10 AM MST
(User Info)

Easter;

Well, its a hack that I would use because I do not care if it is not efficient.

Think of it this way. you have a 24 volt source [in my case, batteries] You actually need 12 volts charge put into other batteries. By feeding the 24 volts thru a resistance [12 volt bulb] into the 12 volt batteries you effectively drop the 24 volt source across the resistance. The resistance consumes roughly half the power [waste] but you charge your batteries. Pretty basic DC circuits 101 stuff. Most would not do this because the losses are pretty substantial. In my case by only doing it when extra power exists it offsets the losses part. The circuit from Glen just does the logic or [deciding].

Thats the basic idea.

And, no, a capacitor in your situation would not likely work. I am a bit reluctant on passing out advice when I don't know the other person's knowledge because there are lots of "gotchas" that need to be understood and I cannot type that all out unless I know the other persons limitations of knowledge.

Cheers.

TomW

"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#39)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 04:51:11 PM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

Hi Tom.  Why put it through a resistor at all?  Cant the LVC circuit just disconnect and reconnect so quickly that it appears to be a nice charging voltage for the 12V battery?

And a cap is really just a very (very) small battery... which is what made me think of it.  I am trying to think of a scenario in which you wouldn't need 12V batteries - u just run your 12V stuff from a LVC circuit direct from the 24V. The idea of the cap is to smooth things out a bit.

(My knowledge is self taught electronics.  I know enough to make smoke! But dont worry, I wont act on any advice without double checking everything... and wont blame you when it blows up!)
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za
[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#30)
by John MI on Tue Nov 6th, 2007 at 08:01:14 PM MST
(User Info)

How much draw does this circuit have on standby, the controller i am using drains out the battery to much after a week or two with no wind.



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#31)
by Woofer (tim( a t )wooferhound.com) on Wed Nov 7th, 2007 at 12:30:48 PM MST
(User Info) http://wooferhound.com

In comment #15 above, he says . . .
Not dumping takes about 3.5ma.  Dumping takes about 7ma to 12ma.
W o o f -={(
Locked Out Again
[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#32)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 02:06:10 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

To reduce that, maybe you could put a switch between the LED and ground.  Flip it off when you don't need to see the green LED.
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za
[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit 24V (3.00 / 0) (#33)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 03:18:03 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

I am busy assembling one of these kits for a 24V dump load.  Can someone confirm or correct the component values to use?  I want to cut in at 27.8V.

R1        8.1K or 8.2K
R2        3.3K?
R3        51K
R4        ?
R5        10K?
RX        22K
C1        10uF
C2        Small...?
ZD1        14V? 1Watt
ZD2        14V? 1Watt
ZD3        16V? 1 Watt

Where C2 is the extra capacitor in the same holes as the extra Zener ZD3.
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit 24V (3.00 / 0) (#35)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Sat Nov 10th, 2007 at 05:47:39 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

Here it is so far....



--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za
[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit - 24V components (3.00 / 0) (#37)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 04:09:53 PM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

To help those trying to set up for 24V, here are the components I have used successfully.  Many thanks to ghurd for his help!

R1    10K
R2    3.3K
R3    51K
R4    100 Ohm
R5    10K
RX    51K
C1    10uF
C2    Tiny
ZD1    18V 1Watt or 1/2
ZD2    5.1V 1Watt or 1/2
ZD3    14V or 13V 1 Watt
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#38)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Thu Nov 15th, 2007 at 04:19:08 PM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

I am thinking of connecting this circuit directly to the leads coming down the pole.  The reason for this is that I have a battery disconnect switch, so its useful to be able to disconnect the battery and know that the dump controller will prevent overspeed.  Same logic applies if for some reason either battery fuse blows (I have two fuses, one in the battery bank, and one in the connection box).  And again if a connection fault isolates the battery from the generator.

I have read about how the dump circuit 'must' be connected directly to the battery, and i understand about how separate voltage monitoring wires are needed that dont carry the main dump current because of voltage drop.

But dumping direct from the generator... seems to have advantages, and I cant see any major problem with it.  Under heavy current the dump controller will then see more voltage than the battery sees, and if anything, will begin to dump a bit too early when the wind is blowing hard and the battery is flat (and hence drawing lots of current).

Please comment!
--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#41)
by ghurd on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 06:17:41 AM MST
(User Info)

It can be very stressful on the windmill, more so if the circuit is operating quickly.
The items used to short the windmill would be very expensive.
G-

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#40)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 06:01:26 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

Here it is:






--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#42)
by South Easter (forcefield .at. windpower .dot. org .dot. za) on Mon Nov 26th, 2007 at 08:33:09 AM MST
(User Info) http://windpower.org.za

Here is the finished(?) box.  The impulse test switch connects a 1K resistor across the centre pin of the ZM and the bottom of ZD1.  The divert allows the current through the dump to be measured (or an additional load to be connected in series).  The two 12V 50W downlights (in series - 24V system) on the left are the current dump load.  The on/off switch allows the circuit to be off, to avoid the small drain on the batteries.



--
South Easter -- http://windpower.org.za


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#43)
by ruddycrazy on Thu Jan 31st, 2008 at 03:15:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Hiya Guy's,
          I just did a search on the ZM33064 and found the zetex site said it was obselete. Anyway after further searching I found the chip is also used as a brown out detector for Uc's and there are other chips also suitable.

Panasonic MN13811-S (Open Collector)
Panasonic MN1381-S (CMOS)
Motorola MC33064P (Open Collector)

 So it looks like any of those chips can also be used if the ZM33064 becomes hard to get

Cheers Bryan




Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#44)
by ghurd on Thu Jan 31st, 2008 at 07:22:49 AM MST
(User Info)

I still have 2000 of the Zetex.

The Panasonics are too sloppy.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#45)
by JimmyZ on Thu Jan 31st, 2008 at 09:26:29 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.freewebs.com/jimmzz91164/

How do I get one of these circuits?Very cool.Tnx.
Jim. (jimmyz2k at yahoo dot com)

[ Parent ]


Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#46)
by ghurd on Fri Feb 1st, 2008 at 06:19:05 AM MST
(User Info)

Ghurd1 <at> yahoo <dot> com

Put Controller in the subject.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#47)
by snowcrow on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 at 09:03:34 AM MST
(User Info)

  Ghurd, I'm adding in a 12V 600W hot water heating element as part of my dump load and want to know if I can run the SSR remotely and draw off the feed already going to my camper? The hot water tank is about 16ft or so from the electrical.

  The Hot water heater in the camper is about 10 gallons, and I was also thinking of using a SPDT snap disc between the controller and SSR to switch the controller output to energize another SSR to dump power when the water reaches 120F.

  Is idea a sound one?

Snow Crow



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#48)
by ghurd on Mon Feb 11th, 2008 at 12:56:30 PM MST
(User Info)

Sounds OK to me.
No reason the wire from the controller to the SSR can't be long.
The SSR will make a lot of heat too.  Might look into also using the SSR heat for the water, somehow.

Might think about an IGBT instead of an SSR.  But anything carring that much current is going to get hot.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#49)
by snowcrow on Tue Feb 12th, 2008 at 06:01:21 AM MST
(User Info)

 Thanks ghurd, a IGBT is my best bet for that kind of amps.  Hopefully I'll get some pictures of this project posted soon, I'm using film now because I killed my cheap digital camera with a static charge while picking it up! }:o( OH WELL!!!

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#50)
by snowcrow on Mon Mar 31st, 2008 at 08:54:26 AM MST
(User Info)

  Thanks for all your help those last few weeks on my IGBT remote dump load project, Ghurd!!!  It's working out just fine so far, NO magic blue smoke has escaped yet and I don't think it will any time soon!!



 For anyone interested in the full story:

 http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/3/31/141234/584

Blessings, Snow Crow

[ Parent ]



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#51)
by snowcrow on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 07:22:31 AM MST
(User Info)

   Hi again Ghurd, do you think it would be at all possible to modify your circuit for 48v?

  The reason I ask is, the regenerative braking on my e-bike needs something to keep from over charging the battery pack on long down hill runs.  It would also create more uniform e-braking, as the battery pack becomes charged.

  Any ideas G ?

Blessings, Snow Crow



Re: Dump Control / LVD Circuit (3.00 / 0) (#52)
by ghurd on Tue Oct 14th, 2008 at 08:17:58 AM MST
(User Info)

My first thought is "How long are the hills!"

Possible I guess, but not very efficient.
Or maybe efficient, but maybe not as accurate.  Not sure how accurate it needs to be.
E me,
G-

[ Parent ]



Dump Control / LVD Circuit | 52 comments (52 topical, 0 editorial)
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