Stirring the pot and observing ... driving a 4 X 4 more earth friendly than taking the train? Organic milk is bad for the environment? Who would have thought!
Ron
(Peter hands Ron the revolver)
Animals can do other important work that could eliminate other fossil fuel usage. For instance, goat herds are now being used to clear construction sites of brush and brambles instead of using a bulldozer, and the goats are happy to do it. Chickens can do more than just cackle and lay eggs; they can also be used as chicken tractors to follow after cattle and scratch the manure into the soil and clear weeds.
The whole idea of these ivory tower calculations is just laughable.-------- Using the best of today's thinking to create the problems of tomorrow[ Parent ]
soon the cars will eat all the cereals,only the crumbs be left for us
The cars will be "green" and humans will be starving.
cheers, stonebrain
Yes you are right!
But we cant allow the earth to have any kind of weather change the earth has no right to get warmer under no circumstances... we must control this rebellious planet.....lol
Luckeydog
.wind gens are much funner to watch than solar panels. Broomfield,Colorado[ Parent ]
Perhaps the real issue is that the Global Warming Alarmists seem to be turning into the Global Warming Gestapo, threatening to destroy the careers of those who disagree with them, or worse.GeoM[ Parent ]
I wonder when that was or where you got that information?
From stuff I read - it amazes me that all this is still so controversial... I think a lot of people are in denial actually. The article ron posted was quite interesting though...[ Parent ]
One must also look at the motivations of some of these people. Kofie butthead former UN head honcho (dont have direct qoute)said something about global warming being such a threat bla bla bla that countries may need to give up their soverienty*. and some have said that commies and socialist have hijacted the environmentalist agenda in order to destroy capitalism. Sry for the bad spelling in a hurry.[ Parent ]
http://www.publisher-world.com/read.php?3,11985
Rgds
Damon
I Believe in Renewable Energy not for the reasons of "global warming" But just because it is the Smart thing to do. and it helps me free myself from the slavery. I am so sick of sending large portions of my hard earned money to the power companies. energy is all around us and almost free you just need to harvest it
Free yourself of the slavery and build a Wind Turbine!
Luckeydog .wind gens are much funner to watch than solar panels. Broomfield,Colorado
Thurmond
I'm sorry?
He?
Not everyone buys into that intelligent design theory. And not all of those who do buy into the intelligent design theory buy the the "He" part, either.
But, I guess it relieves individuals of any responsibility for their actions because it is already decided?
Sorry, but, like other absolute statements I see here, I tend to try to see it from different angles.
My angle is it is simply an accident of nature that we are here and that we need to be careful of how powerful we think we and the God[s] we have created are.
Just providing another viewpoint that does not conform to your absolute statement. No need for a crusade, just keep an open mind.
To each their own. The real major difference between creationists and evolutionists seems to simply be time at least from here.
Cheers.
TomW
"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain[ Parent ]
Nothing against hope. Exactly why I challenged the statement. I dislike the "everything is good, God will fix it" line of thought.
We need to take responsibility as a species to at least try to improve things. That is regardless of faith.
I have hope that humankind will pull its collect head out of its collective rectum one day and realize we need to exist in harmony with nature and not in domination of nature.
If our actions are already decided as tritium states what happened to free will then? It just doesn't ring true that it could be both ways.
But, first, remember he brought up the Deity angle and I just responded with my view. It is not "Anti God" it is just a view that just wringing your hands and praying is not the answer for all of us.
I could go on but will not because it will just lead to either a Jihad, Holy War or Crusade where everyone will lose. I mostly want people to understand that sitting on our hands got us here and action is needed to improve things.
I am not sure I buy into the whole Global Warming / Carbon thing either.
I do what I can to affect my corner of things but thats all I can do until we kill off the corporations that just use up resources and move on like immortal locusts.
There is this big flood. Preacher gets to the 2nd floor of the church. So does the water. Then the 3rd. Then the 4th. Etc. Etc. Etc. Then the bell tower. The preacher is sitting on the peak bell tower. A boat comes by. The seaman asks "Need a lift preacher?" Preacher says "No. God will provide for me." The boat leaves to rescue other people. A 2nd boat, and the same thing. Then a 3rd boat. Then the water gets higher, and he is standing on the lightning rod, head barely above the waves. A helicopter arrives. Same conversation. Water gets higher. Preacher drowns. Goes to heaven. Preacher asks God why God did not save him, after all, he was a believer. God answers "I sent 3 boats and a helicopter! What did you expect me to send?"
Maybe God sent wind, sun, falling water, and breeder reactors? Even if the French like breeder reactors.
(TomW, seems On Topic at this point. Feel free to Zap if you desire) G-[ Parent ]
Thurmond[ Parent ]
That is what I believe, too. You decide what you do, what you believe, what you think. But its just that its already known what you are going to do, etc, and where you'll end up.
I also believe global warming is just another million dollar(if not billion) industry and nothing more than that. People these days will try every way to take your dime. Airlines are even providing you an option to make your cross atlantic flight's carbon foot print zero. You just pay them an extra 15 bucks and they magicly take the carbon out of the air. Then there's Al Gore... He made a moive about global warming. Enough said about him. Some electric utilities also provide you the option to buy wind power electric, again, for more money.
Not all this is bad. It does help to increase research and developement. Whether its NASA or Chevy taking the lead it all helps to pull our selves away from oil. But I just see it also being used to make money. Which if thats the only way and the fastest way, then so be it.
So if your still wondering what I think about global warming then its this: The earth goes, has gone, and will go in temperature cycles. They will change and continue to change for many years. It might be increased by humans but it is impossible for it to be created by humans and substanded due to humans. So I believe then one day it will cool down and then it will be the Global cooling Billion dollar industry.
My 3 cents worth.
-Randy[ Parent ]
If they really want to impact CO2 generation, the only viable short term solution is nuclear power generation, electrification of the railroads, elimination of long haul trucking as much as possible, and electrification of short haul trucking and private commuting. Long term, perhaps space based power generation will become viable. While the overall system efficiency would currently be low (7% is the last figure I saw), the energy is as free as it gets and as massive as you want. GeoM[ Parent ]
this is the way I look at it. if you have one acre of land and that land can support three rabbits with out harm to the land then this is a healthy population.
but when two of those rabbits breed and create 6 more rabbits then the land will become unhealthy and the rabbit population will be reduced to 3 to 4 rabbits again.
the human population is no different than the rabbits in the one acre field of land.
I believe the population of humans on this earth are reaching the max sustainable population it may have exceeded this already. only time will tell.
just my .02 cents
Luckeydogwind gens are much funner to watch than solar panels. Broomfield,Colorado
[ Parent ]
As I mentioned earlier the Global Warming Alarmists have turned into the Global Warming Gestapo, with their threats to ruin the careers of, or even find some way to criminally prosecute those who disagree with them. It has now gone beyond reasoning. They have made a religion of it with all the bad potential that implies. What do we get next, the Global Warming Inquisition?GeoM[ Parent ]
Just as building an (unsafe) fireworks factory in a residential area has laws to mitigate such risks, so, I think, should be pointless pollution or inefficiency.
People/megacorps too idle or selfish to mitigate the risks if they can do so easily should be punished or coerced because their actions are antisocial and potentially fatal. The really key issue here is 'easily'/reasonable. I don't think this issue is "should we just cover our eyes and ears and hope we don't suffer" but rather "what are the best/simplest reasonable steps everyone can take to minimise the risk*cost".
Damon[ Parent ]
Blessings, Snow Crow[ Parent ]
I applaud all who are helping to make the air cleaner the water swimmable and so forth. There's more that can be done to increase the air quality and standards of living for ALL. BUT those who seek to do this for their own gains ,,, need to take a long holiday first and get over theirselves.
I read the entire article and the people making assuntions need to take a reality check and think about what they put out. This article should've been put out on fools day.
Cheers Bruce S[ Parent ]
This is "FUZZY LOGIC" at best, if you ask me!!! Starve are selves and feed are cars? It doesn't take much to figure out who paid for this study!!! Yes, I can see where cutting calorie intake would benefit a growing number of the population, no pun intended, but driving to save energy would be better, I don't think so!!! At some point, the lack of exersice and poor diet will catch up with us, and we will be driving to the doctor's office once or twice a week, so how does that help the global atmosphere?
Heres a thought, how about a Health Club, with staff, including a RN, salad bar, and where all of the exersice machines are made in such a way as to produce electricity when it is being used!! Might as well put burning calories to good use!!! The only membership requirements are that you arrive and leave by "Green Means", (bike, bus, or walking), that you workout if you hang out, and you pay a small members fee, (which is waved for the top 10 members who lose the most lbs. that month). If you have enough members, it should paid for itself in no time!! You could sell the extra power to the grid. It may sound silly, but its got to work better than the above statement!!!
Blessings, Snow Crow
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/09/fat-burning-members-power-hong-kong-fitness-club/
Cheers
Bruce S[ Parent ]
Now they say that its methane from cow belches, and Carbon Dioxide (from people breathing?). People eat too much meat, and have too many babies, but there's not much of a chance that anyone can legislate China and India into "cutting back". They're burning coal without exhaust filters as fast as they can.
As far as the oceans level, The north pole is a big floating pancake of ice with 90% of it underwater. Water is bigger when its frozen (ever split a milk jug when freezing water?) so if it melts, the level will be the same. Ice on land (Antarctica, Greenland, Canada, Russia) will run into the ocean, but if everything is hotter, there will be more vapor in the atmosphere, so level stays the same. I imagine there will be more rain and hurricanes from the increased atmospheric moisture. I recommend avoiding the purchase of property in New Orleans that is 17 feet below the sea level.
The K-T Boundary is the thin layer between the "giant dinosaur" era and the small animal era. It is rich in meteoric iron and volcanic ash. The bubbles in petrified tree resin called "amber" show the pevious atmosphere was over 30% oxygen. Trillions of hot iron meteorites raining through the atmosphere pulled O2 levels (rust, the oceans floors are covered with meteoric rust) down to 21% making it hard for the big dinos to breathe, the volcanic ash from a giant asteroid strikes (Yucatan, Antartica, etc...) blocked out the sun for months, killing much plant life, killing giant herbivores, which denied giant carnivores of viable prey.
There were thick lush forests in Alaska/Siberia which were neccessary to feed enormous herds of Mammoth elephants. It was so warm there was coral in the water there. Then it then got so cold, there was a ridiculously thick glacier covering most of North America.
The Earth is going through a warming cycle, but man is not the cause. I hadn't heard before about CO2 being scrubbed by the ocean and being converted to calcium carbonate, but there is more CO2-to-O2 conversion going on by oceanic plankton than by trees (those camera whores!)
I haven't seen any published measurements of Methane and CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, and I suspect its because you can't fake an easy to replicate measurement. Mars and Venus are warming at exactly the same rate as the Earth, so its not people.
Right now oil-drillers and low-pressure helium reactor builders will bend over backwards to be clean, but the environmental lobby is using the Endangered Species Act ("spotted owl, tiger salamander, gnatcatcher", etc...) to stop all developement. The only thing that can bypass it is a presidential order during a "national emergency", and when that happens, it's going to get very messy.
Solar desalinated sea water will be expensive, and so will syn-fuels from tar-sands and shale-oil. Learn everything you can about self-sufficiency, because its coming.
I don't know how other people may feel about the global warming debate, but I for one, have my eyes open wide, and my mind as well. Be careful what you see and take as truth, for you maybe deceived, and find in the end, that the "Endangered Species Act" applies to you as well!!!
Blessings, Snow Crow [ Parent ]
there are tons of references to solar flares and global warming
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295&q=global+warming&total=17088&am p;start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=1
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3028847519933351566&q=global+warming&total=17088&am p;start=0&num=100&so=0&type=search&plindex=7
http://fathersforlife.org/REA/warming13.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/56456.stm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/03/030321075236.htm wind gens are much funner to watch than solar panels. Broomfield,Colorado[ Parent ]
On http://fathersforlife.org/REA/warming13.htm , the top of the page they state where their loyalty is:
"Working in the interests of the owners of rural electric services"
Yes you are right
you cant believe everything people say especially politicians.
look at all points of view and do some thinking and come up with a reasonable answer.
we cant predict the weather 7 days out accurately so we sure cant predict it 50 years out.
I still know there is a lot of misinformation out there. ya just got to swim threw it.wind gens are much funner to watch than solar panels. Broomfield,Colorado[ Parent ]
Almost every link or supporting comment has its own agenda. Usually involving someone making or keeping their money.
Well, it is your forum....
"Education consists mainly of what we have unlearned."--Mark Twain
Something that is unknown, undefined, and widely debated is causing Mars to warm. The warming is causing enormous dust storms which affects its atmospheres absorption of solar heat, which is speeding up the warming, causing worse dust storms, etc...
http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Global_Warming_Hits_Mars_Too_999.html
It might be an undiscovered "X" factor, solar flares, solar electromagnetic field variations (if the sun can keep a hold of faraway Pluto, the Earth is in a much stronger part of its grip [flux?]).
I'm certainly not in favor of "polluting for fun and profit", but if anyone is certain that the only cause of global warming is human activities, will you admit that the biggest human polluters by far are India and China? Sadly, they have been unresponsive to international influence.
On another note, The original post cites an article that posed the question "if you walk a few miles, you burn "X" amount of calories, and it would take "Y" amount of beef to replace those calories. Then, driving a modern car would cause less global warming than the cows needed to make up those calories. (when I drive a truck, I still get hungry, so its not either/or, though manual labor does make me slightly hungriER)
I think this is a little disingenuous. Who eats nothing but beef? wouldn't oatmeal and veggies/fruit, with a little chicken or fish be a better calorie source for a realistic comparison? (although, I AM a big supporter of Biodiesel and Ethanol).
I do get the point that, for instance, its better to get LOCAL veggies/fruit. Cutting back on meat and eating more V/F is good, but if the fruit you're eating is a Kiwifruit flown from New Zealand to Florida, that would be more bad than good.
Warm-water coral and forests thick enough to support elephants in Siberia? A ridiculously thick glacier covering North America? very big changes, and I believe mans contribution is just a spit in the ocean.
"Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps." -Emo Philips
i hope you have more luck proving mars is heating up than they have had convincing people we have a local problem. lol
you can blame it on mysterious unknown forces or the two hundred gigatons of carbon dioxide we have released into this biosphere.
i think it's past the point of blame and we just need to do something about it now.
one of the reasons the chinese are polluting so much is they are busy making "stuff" for us.
" I believe mans contribution is just a spit in the ocean."
man , thats a lot of spit !!
this 21 century may take a lot of getting use to,but the 22 century should be pretty good. so now i think we need a lot of trees ,a new fuel and a new outlook .
i think the crisis we are ALL going to be dealing with, will not be the end of our reign as the dominate species.
with luck it will elevate us into a new and better harmony with nature. we have proven we can mess it up. so now we will prove we can fix it up.
mankind has the power now to make this world anything we wants. so do we want what we have now or do we want something else.
something better.[ Parent ]
