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Trouble with 24 volt system


By modernmarvelinspired, Section Wind
Posted on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 at 05:54:46 PM MST
24volt

Hello,   I have a 24v wind turbine.  It has 12 2x1x1/2 magnets, 8 coils wired in star, made of 16AWG with 100 turns each, and there is about 1/16 airgap between the magnets and the coils.  There is only one steel rotor, as I find a dual rotor to be complicated, but that is another story.  My problem is I think it has a cut in speed of about 250rpm.  I can't seem to make a set of blades that will get that thing to charge my batteries until the wind hits about 15 mph. Even then it will only hit about 50 watts max.  On 25mph days I see about 100 watts and thats only if the wind is really hitting it straight on.  I currently have a 2 blade prop that spans about 7'5".  But i'm sure even that is too big.  It starts up good though just not enough rpm.

I need some help and I appreciate it,  Thankyou.

Trouble with 24 volt system | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Flux on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 at 12:06:44 PM MST
(User Info)

Firstly can you confirm that you really have 8 coils.

Secondly I really think you will struggle to load a 7'5" prop with 12 magnets on a single rotor. You may just do it if you add a second spinning disc with no magnets but even then you don't have a lot in hand. If you can't manage a dual rotor then I suspect you will not manage the second spinning disc.

Until you clear up the 8 coil bit I don't feel inclined to make any further comments in case you have it single phase, and even then it would be odd.

Flux



Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by modernmarvelinspired on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 at 03:30:57 PM MST
(User Info)

Sorry that was a typo, it is a 9 coil system.  This machine is alot like the one that someone built on here that there is a picture of using only one rotor with 2"x1/2 inch round magnets.  I think DanB built it. It has a 7 foot prop on it.  Mine is somewhat similar to that.

[ Parent ]


Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by modernmarvelinspired on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 at 03:32:56 PM MST
(User Info)

Sorry that was a typo, it has 9 coils. This machine is alot like the one someone else here has built.  It has a 7 foot prop , 3 blades.  Mine is similar to this.




Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by kurt on Sat Sep 29th, 2007 at 05:48:14 PM MST
(User Info)

this one??? http://otherpower.com/7windturbine.html


http://www.reresource.org/

IRC


Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Flux on Sun Sep 30th, 2007 at 12:39:54 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks for clearing up the issue of coil numbers, it makes more sense now.

Thanks also to Kurt for the link to Dan's machine, you have 50% less magnet area than Dan and I already think Dan's design was a bit marginal.

I also think your prop must be comparatively slow for your performance to be as bad as it is. 250 rpm cut in is high for that size of prop and would certainly bring your cut in wind speed well up, but you should have reached over 300W at 25mph. Maybe your wind speeds are way off or your prop is really slow.

You would need at least 150 turns to bring the cut in down to something reasonable for that size prop, but if you did that then you would need thinner wire or a thicker stator and either way you would have trouble loading that prop in a reasonable wind.

Your alternator would better suit 6ft dia with prop tsr 6 to 7. That would bring your cut in down to sensible wind speeds and provide a reasonable match.

Single rotor makes very poor use of the magnets and if your stator is more than 3/8" thick you will have little flux reaching the backs of the coils. ( I guess your stator is nearer 1/2" thick)

At this stage you could try adding a crude laminated core to the back of the stator to increase the flux, it will never be the ideal solution but you may end up with a higher general output from a poor 7'5" rotor compared with a good 6ft as the power gained from the larger diameter is considerable and may offset the iron loss. I still think you may start ok.

For the core you could try a coil of well annealed crate banding steel strip. Alternatively you could make a coil of mig wire about 3/16" thick and with inner and outer diameters to suit your magnet rotor. It may help somewhat if it was rusty scrap wire with most of the copper plating gone. Soaking it in polyester resin or polyurethane varnish would probably help. Stick it to the back of your stator.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Tue Oct 2nd, 2007 at 07:17:20 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Hi Flux - you say it's marginal and I wonder if you would expand on that...  (you're opinions are very interesting to me)

I sort of feel the same way, this was sort of a quick/dirty design we came up with to use 'standard' parts that we had on hand.  I think it's good for about 300 Watts which I agree... is pretty marginal for a 7' machine, but it did seem to work OK in lower winds and I've yet to put that one on an even half way decent tower.  

[ Parent ]



Re: Trouble with 24 volt system (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Flux on Wed Oct 3rd, 2007 at 12:49:22 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi Dan

I am sure your design is fine for 7ft especially if you choose the blades a bit on the fast side ( didn't you originally have Art's plastic blades in mind).

The most satisfactory designs to survive well  seem to be those that are working well towards stall with the alternator efficiency high for the size of blade. They seem to remain safe by virtue of a fair bit of stall control as well as furling. If you push their performance up with added line resistance then the alternator efficiency stays high and excess loss goes into the line rather than cooking the stator.

Running designs that achieve best aerodynamic performance from the prop do perform well in terms of output but they rely on furling at quite modest wind speeds for protection.
I have come to the conclusion that many are managing to make these machines furl at too high a wind speed. As long as they realise this and do something to furl in a low enough wind then these smaller alternators should be fine.

I agree that it is a nice simple design and to some extent that may outweigh the very poor use of magnet material. The big snag with single rotors is that the coils have to be very thin otherwise the back half of the coils has virtually no flux linking it. This does limit the available winding space.

If ease of construction is the most important issue then go for it. If cost of magnet is more of an issue than ease of construction then I would go for a second spinning disc with no magnets. The design would then be well able to handle a 7ft prop with higher efficiency and less worry about having to furl reliably in quite low winds.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Trouble with 24 volt system | 7 comments (7 topical, 0 editorial)
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