the Otherpower.com Discussion Board || Jan 11, 2008

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Jan 11, 2008
By DanB, Section Wind Posted on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 09:19:31 PM MST
poker, dogs, wind turbines for sale and a new users manual

Last couple weeks have been busy/interesting. We've done lots of metal work, made a few stators (boring stuff sort of) so no pics of that. Rich's 7' wind turbine (pictured above) has been wonderful. He hooked up a C40 controller to a couple 300 Watt resistors sized to draw about 40 amps. The system works great. He's lived for years now off less than 100 watts of PV solar. He occasionally watches a movie (usually on his lap top), runs a couple light bulbs, and a stereo. The wind turbine has really changed things at his house.

Last Saturday they had one hell of a poker party here in the shop... I was wise not to play for too long. I think I lost about $10... other folks were less fortunate (and one was much more fortunate).

We had an interesting failure on my 20' machine this week. A connection broke at the base of the tower. The machine ran single phase for a while before I noticed it overspeeding and making quite a lot of noise/vibration. We shut it down - but realized that there was also a bad connection at the top! (wire broke bottom and top) It was fairly scary because I did this in high winds. We lowered the tower and noticed that all the nuts that hold the stator had come loose! Also - one of the wires that goes down the tower rubbed enough on a wire that comes out of the stator to destroy the insulation and a wire from the stator was 'burned off' right down to the resin. So we had to chisel into the stator and find wires to connect back to. I expect that all of these problems happened very quickly in the few hours that the machine was running single phase and vibrating intensely. At any rate - it's all fixed now and no real harm done.

Can you count how many dogs are on the couch?

A lot of folks ask us to build wind turbines for them - I usually prefer not to because most people don't have realistic ideas about renewable energy systems (so we screen customers carefully). Most of the machines we've put up around here, or sold to other people seem to be well behaved, quiet and holding up nicely so we've decided to offer mostly complete wind turbine kits on our shopping cart HERE. We also recently put up a 'users manual' for these and similar machines HERE. It's brand new and I'd love to hear any comments about it!

Jan 11, 2008 | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by clarsondd on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 02:50:42 PM MST
(User Info)

Can you count how many dogs are on the couch?

looks like 7 to me

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by fungus (info@reenergy.co.uk) on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 04:54:51 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.reenergy.co.uk/

I Only see 5

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk
[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by SparWeb (sparweb at ANTISPAM_hotmail_com) on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 10:45:42 PM MST
(User Info)

You aren't supposed to count the two-legged one ;^)
Steven Fahey
[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by harrie on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 03:18:11 PM MST
(User Info)

Im beginning to think one should drill the stainless nuts on the stator, and saftywire them so they cant loosen up. I try and use lock nuts, but I have even saw them loosen??

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by jimjjnn (jimjjnn at yahoo dot com) on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 08:53:30 PM MST
(User Info)

I see 7 critters on the couch. Of course that is after a few cold drinks.
Jim Denver,CO
[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by Old F on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 07:21:29 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.oldf.homestead.com

Ok witch one of the dogs skunked you guys at poker ? : ) I count 7 dogs my self

OLD F

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by twombo on Fri Jan 11th, 2008 at 09:48:39 PM MST
(User Info)

Dan

As a full time Technical Writer, that's a damn fine manual you guys produced, damn fine! It's all printed up and on my night stand. I'll be counting wind turbines tonight as I go to sleep!!!

Cheers

Mike

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by richhagen (richhagen (a t) Juno.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 04:31:37 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi, I just read through parts of the manual. One thing I note, is that I know for PV systems, from the National Electric Code article 690, over current protection is required for battery banks. For PV it must be rated at 125% of the maximum open circuit voltage and of a specified class, also if the lines through the fuse can be energized from both directions, it must be labeled indicating that. I'm not sure if there is a similar requirement somewhere for wind, or if this is applicable to wind as well, but it would seem likely to be the case.

This seems a bit problematic for a typical turbine, because you would never want it to be running unloaded, as that would also be a dangerous situation.

For a wind turbine, I would think you would want a fuse at the battery bank sized such that it would never blow under normal circumstances, but would offer protection in case the battery cables were shorted. The conductors would then have to be rated to handle more current than the over current device, at least inside or at/on any structure I would think. If I were in your neck of the woods, absent any more restrictive requirements, I would probably run the conductors either underground, or in metal conduit outside, because of the fire hazards at certain times of the year as well if their was insufficient fusing to protect the size of conductor between the mill and the battery bank. Of course if the rectifiers are inside as I believe yours were and probably still are, they would likely fail before the cable anyway. Rich
'A Joule saved is a Joule made'

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Boss (brians.outfit(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 06:31:01 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.outfitnm.com

Oh man, you guys are driving us crazy with envy. Will you either quit enjoying life so much or at least put in a story or two about the pipes freezing or some such?
So, monday, we will meet at the college and begin reassembling the turbine we built in y'all's magnificent shop.

Rumor has it the college is buying a big wind turbine for advertising purposes. Kevin said they just ordered four $450.00 batteries. He said the make and model, but another lapse in memory and it is gone for good. It would appear there is a competing group for renewable energy at the college. Kevin is putting me on the payroll as a renewable energy tech. But we both wonder if we wouldn't be better off on our own doing workshops and building systems. I think the plan is, use the college to get started, when the bureaucracy becomes more trouble than it's worth, we move on.
I am getting excited about building an off-grid workshop next to the site of our wind turbine. This is an open space on a hill top very close to my house.

Your shop is so warm and comfortable. Only good things can come from a setup like you have there. It is a shining example to the rest of us.
I only hope we can build a community here similar in nature and depth to what you have there in Colorado.

Brian Rodgers

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by disaray1 on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 07:18:54 AM MST
(User Info)

Six dogs.

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by fungus (info@reenergy.co.uk) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 08:58:18 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.reenergy.co.uk/

I only see 5 .. unless you're counting the one on the floor and if theres one in the pile of sheets on top :)

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by neilho (neilho at innevi dot com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 09:32:28 AM MST
(User Info)

Dan,

I'm unable to find the print version of the user's manual. The links lead to a general page where quick and advanced searches using "Wind Turbine User's manual" as a search term yields no results and the manual doesn't seem to be listed under new products.

Can you supply a more direct link?

Thanks,
Neil

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 01:30:43 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Hi Neil -
sorry, we won't have that printed version till next week.

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by neilho (neilho at innevi dot com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 08:05:56 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks for the reply, Dan. I'll get myself to the library tomorrow and download the manual onto the thumb drive- pretty handy, having a $30 portable computer.

Neil

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by dinges on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 09:52:07 AM MST
(User Info)

Dan,

I wouldn't use nylocks on windturbines, at least not for things that have to stay on. Double nuts might work but don't look elegant to me. Distorting the thread by chiseling may work but is pretty permanent (though the nut can still be removed if need be). Not an elegant solution either.

Below are two scans from an old aircraft maintenance manual. The first drawing shows two ways of using 'locking plates'. I very much like this way of locking things. It's also what I would use for example to lock the 5 bolts on each blade to the hub, perhaps with a custom locking plate to lock 4 of the 5 bolts with one single plate with 4 holes (the middle bolt would be harder, may have to use another, single locking plate for that one).

Notice that in the original drawing the right part is missing but it has an upward tab that sits against the side of the nut as in the left drawing. So, make a flat plate, put it in place, tighten the nut and then bend the tab of the locking plate to lock the nut.

One could also use locking wire, as is often used in aircraft, but it's only suitable for locking bolts (bolt heads).

There are plenty of other methods too. Loctite is one. Up to you to select the one that best suits your needs. BTW, nylocks were allowed in the aircraft I used to work on, but they were only to be used ONCE. If they were removed they had to be thrown away and replaced by a new one as the plastic would have distorted, thereby reducing its locking ability when used again.

Peter.

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by harrie on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:38:22 AM MST
(User Info)

" locking wire only suitable for bolt heads"

Not true. If the bolt head is welded, or locked in place, the nuts can be safty wired also, or the heads and nuts can be safty wired together which will not allow any movement. At least that is what Pratt & Whittney Jet engine manufactures recommened when I was in the Navy as a Jet Mech.

If you look at your other locking tabs, one can see how they too would allow the bolt itself to turn in the nut even tho the nut itself is locked in place unless the bolt is welded, or is a locked stud.

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by Countryboy on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:44:13 AM MST
(User Info)

A castle nut with a cotter pin is an easy way to guarantee the nut won't come loose.

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by Dave B on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 11:28:41 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.madbbs.com/users/bruggelog

Blue Lock-tite, no fuss no muss. I just disassembled my 18' that I had locktite on all nuts. Blades, hub, stator, rotors and everything was as snug as when assembled. It's the non-permanent version and takes a pretty good twist to release it but it my opininon it would never loosen in normal operation. It aint cheap but neither is a crash, I will be using it again when it goes back together. I have it on all of my tower hardware also, I sleep well at night. Dave B.

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by elvin1949 (elvin1949@yahoo.com) on Sat Jan 12th, 2008 at 10:25:21 PM MST
(User Info)

Blue is fine. Don't use red if you ever intend to take it loose.It takes 300 ft/lbs to break it loose.
later
Elvin

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by neilho (neilho at innevi dot com) on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 10:58:23 AM MST
(User Info)

For most of the screws we use, that's true. But red Loctite is removable on large bolts, (I think the boundary is 3/4") and blue Loctite is permanent on small fasteners, like #4 screws. It's also dependent on the length of Loctited thread, cure time and fastener material.

[ Parent ]

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by blueyonder (windwoodgood at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jan 13th, 2008 at 03:52:36 PM MST
(User Info)

i just had to make a comment here.
the manual is one of the best ive ever read. and such wit in there aswell.
it was good reading for me and answered a few questions i would like to have posted in the newbies section .
so ten outa ten . if i were a critic i would say a five star book from dans dans.
and how meny dogs are bitches. or are thay all dogs. one guy six dogs one sofa.
only problem is now i got to go build my own turbine. cheap skate arent i.
its a ill wind that dos no good

Re: Jan 11, 2008 (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by jmk on Mon Jan 14th, 2008 at 01:55:14 AM MST
(User Info)

I like to use silicone on my hardware. It comes back off with a wrench with no trouble.
jmk

Jan 11, 2008 | 22 comments (22 topical, 0 editorial)

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