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14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3
By electronbaby, Section Homebrewed Electricity Posted on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 11:15:38 PM MST
KB2UHF Axial Flux Listeroid Alternator

I finally got to test the fuel consumption of the listeroid 6/1 and the alternator I built for it. The earlier post regarding this project are here:
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/12/30/15943/946
http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/12/30/21440/810

I found this laying around the shop while I was attempting to clean up the other day (its rare that I clean up). It runs on 10-80vdc and since the output prior to the MX is around 72vdc, it seems to work quite well. Overall, I dont think I have even 6 hours runtime on this engine.

Blurry picture, I know. This is a fuel measurement tube I made up. Its 1.25 inch clear tubing. There are some reducers on the bottom to feed the 1/4" tube that in turn feeds the fuel filter. Its cut to length to accomodate 500mL of fuel. I hung it up with some zip ties to the chain that holds up my radiator.
I ran the engine (under load) to get it nice and warm, probably about an hour. The temp outside was aprox 38 degrees F. I kept pouring in fuel to do this. Once it was warm, I waited till the fuel got to the very bottom of the tube. I then reset the KWH/AH meters and poured in another 500mL. I then kept the alternator under load for as long as it took to let the fuel drop down to the very bottom again. I averaged a 1900 watt load and I got 1.3 KWH for this amount of fuel. This was with the engine set at 650rpm under load.

I then multiplied it out since there are 3785.6 mL in 1 Gallon.
3785.6 mL / 500 mL = 7.5712

1.3KWH * 7.5712 = 9.84256KWH's

9.84KWH per gallon of diesel.
Overall this is pretty good and efficient. Im curious what it will do on WVO. Almost have the conversion done :-)
Dan, I dont have an IR thermometer, but I carefully monitored the stator by just feeling it, and it didnt even get slightly warm. However the MX60's fan was running non stop. It got warm, but not too bad.

14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by fungus (info@reenergy.co.uk) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 04:54:35 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.reenergy.co.uk/

9.7kWh/L for diesel, you've got 2.6 - 26.8% fuel efficiency - not bad :)

'Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.'-Albert Einstein
Fungus - www.reenergy.co.uk

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Boondocker on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 06:35:45 PM MST
(User Info)

Nice project. Thanks for posting the results.

I'm developing an appreciation for the cost of energy. Diesel is currently around $3.40 per gallon. 3.40/9.84= $0.34/kwhr for fuel.

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 07:36:03 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

$.34/kWh if you dont include labor, wear and tear... replacement parts and the initial cost of the equipment! It's actually quite a lot more...

[ Parent ]

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 07:33:10 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

Nice Job! You've certainly got me beat.... (Im right at 7.5kWh/ gallon) To do that well I suppose I should - get bigger magnet rotors and wind with lower resistance, and maybe a thermostat on my engine. I currently use a cooling tank and the engine is likely running too cold. I should also look into carefully timing my injector pump (which I've never done)
Thank you for sharing! Gives me another project or two I guess ;-)

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 07:53:11 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

That's about it... 25% efficient overall. You need to capture the 105k BTU loss for heating( or cooling). Mine is a bit lower, I get 6 hours on a gallon pusing 1200 watts into the batteries continuously... I have to many conversions... the engine drives a 5500 ST head into the inverter that charges the batteries. It will actually run everything in my home. Still far better than pouring a gallon an hour in a gas genny...

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 at 08:31:44 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Very nice work by the way! Outstanding craftsmanship!

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed
[ Parent ]

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by jmk on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 06:55:17 AM MST
(User Info)

Nice job! I'm am interested in building a system like that. I am wondering how hard are they to start?. My inverter has an auto start function for a generator. I'll have to research the engine and learn more about it to see if I can make an auto starter for it. It would be nice to make bio diesel to feed it. This might just be my next project.
jmk

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 12:16:24 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

I am kinda wondering what everybody else is getting for fuel efficiency on these engines using conventional radial gen heads ???

It would be interesting to hear from others.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by jmk on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 07:59:17 PM MST
(User Info)

I've been reading up on these listeroid engines. They are almost as interesting as the wind turbines. Now I have a new bug! I am thinking I have got to have one these. I like the no electrical parts, so if it has fuel and compression it will start. It doesn't have glow plugs or spark plugs to foul up, or wires to go bad. I read an article where they ran one of these in India for forty years without shutting it off. Now that's impressive! I'm thinking like a fifty-five gal drum for the fuel tank, or a fuel oil tank. Well there is alot to read on these.
jmk

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 at 08:18:09 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

yes, they are quite appealing. :-) you have to be careful about selecting the quality of the engine or manufacturer you buy. A few are better than most. Do your homework, and definately check out Georges site: www.utterpower.com
You should buy Georges CD and read up before making any decisions. He has a wealth of info in there. Its well worth the $20 he charges.

I got a cool stainless heat exchanger today. I have to bolt it up to the listeroid and use it to preheat my veggie.

Ill be posting more on this soon.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by jmk on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 05:49:56 PM MST
(User Info)

If you preheat it do you have to mix it with diesel still?
jmk
[ Parent ]

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Fri Jan 4th, 2008 at 06:20:35 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

no. you can burn it straight. as long as its CLEAN. the only reason to heat it is to thin it so the IP and the injectors dont overwork themselves. there is tons of info on this all over the net. again, some better than others. Ive done some work pertaining to mixing different fuels to get the viscosity to be similar in different temps. If you can thin out the WVO then you dont have to pre-heat it basically. Some oil is better than others. Bio diesel is what you get when you chemically remove the glycerin so the fuel is thinner. again, I am no expert, I suggest checking out some of the other forums. possibly frybrid.com or greasel.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by Dieter on Wed Jan 9th, 2008 at 02:17:27 PM MST
(User Info)

Looks like a fun project, good job.

With Outback Power's new FLEXmax 80 you increase your output to 80 Amps.
Ten more amps at 27V would add another 270 watts to your output power.
Dieter

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by GWatPE on Sun Jan 20th, 2008 at 01:16:53 AM MST
(User Info)

Hi,

how accurate are the displayed Input & output VI in the photo.

My calcs give efficiency of < 90%. No wonder the DC-DC conv. needs a fan.

I have used an AERL CoolMAX DC-DC conv. with eff > 99%. no heatsink or fan for 900W unit.

This may equate to 200 more watts to your battery with same amount of diesel.

cheers.
be more energy aware

Re: 14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by electronbaby (roy<at>windsine.org) on Mon Jan 21st, 2008 at 09:12:44 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windsine.org

this is interesting. can you post some info on that converter? does it buck over a wide DC range? Ive seen well over 2kw from this alternator. It will not sustain that however because my system voltage is 24v grrrr. might be upgrading to 48v soon. this will give me the extra headroom for another 1kw of output to play with on the controller. The alternator then can be run up to max output ??? and the temps measured. The efficiency also measured. Im tempted to disconnect the inverters and rewire the bank for 48v just to settle the max output @ 48v issue.

So far I shoot the temp of the alternator (stator) and it never gets above 55F ---Its been aprox 40F ambient when I ran those tests. Its outside. That was with a load averaging 1900 watts and without a thermostat. Since then Ive added a 195F thermo and its def up to a good temp now. I have the listeroid running on WVO currently. one of these days I will do a fuel consumption measurement for WVO. been fine tuning things on this engine. I still have not timed it, but it runs beter on WVO due to the higher cetane rating and the slight listeroid knock goes away lol. it runs nice. Been running REAL clean, nice oil. This makes me think the timing needs to be messed with on diesel. The I V info you see has been checked against my fluke meters and they hold true. I only have 17 hours on the motor so far so its barely broken in. It seems ok so far.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF
[ Parent ]

14 inch Axial Flux Listeroid MPPT Part 3 | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial)

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