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Charging a battery bank using steam?


By jnwaite, Section Steam
Posted on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 10:12:41 PM MST
Is there a way to use my waste heat to run a small steam engine that will charge a battery bank?

I live off-grid in Fairbanks, Alaska.  During the summer we get 100% of our electricity from solar panels that charge a 24v battery bank (12 2v 1000 amp hour batteries).  During the winter we have to run a generator an hour or two a day to keep the batteries charged and healthy.  At current fuel prices, this is starting to add up.  We've recently set up a couple wind turbines, however there isn't much wind during the first half of winter.

For heat we rely primarily on a coal stove.  I was wondering if there was a way to make a very small steam turbine that could sit on top of the stove and would put out just enough power to charge a 24-volt battery system--I don't need it to produce thousands of watts or 120 AC.  

Jason

Charging a battery bank using steam? | 11 comments (11 topical)

Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by scottsAI on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 05:40:08 PM MST

Yes, need more details on what you need.
What is your budget?



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by dnix71 on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 07:04:40 PM MST

A Lister or Indian copy (Listeroid) running on waste vegetable oil (1/3 gallon per hour) would make enough electric to power a medium sized urban home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHRFxnpJYg

http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/2007/01/01/new-listeroid-veggie-gen-arriving/

The second link descibes one for charging batteries and using the waste heat for domestic hot water.



searching ... (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by wdyasq on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 08:12:41 PM MST

Recent post:

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/10/9/12028/6852

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by bob g on Fri Oct 10, 2008 at 09:05:33 PM MST

what charge regime are you using?
are you trying to top off the batteries every day?

need a bit more info to be of much help, but if you are charging the batteries as most folks do there is a much more efficient way to do so.

check out the 50/80 regime

depending on how much capacity you need on a daily basis it might work out well for you.

for instance, if you need only 300amp/hrs per day
then cycle the batteries down to 50% and then charge them up to 80% each day, and once every week or 10 days do a complete charge to 100%

you can throw alot of amps into the batteries from 50-80% DOC, before you must start to taper back the rate, from 50-80% you can do that in a fairly short amount of time, going from 80-100% takes a very long time comparatively speaking.

i mention going to 80% because that is when the batteries generally start to gas, some will go as high as 85% before gassing starts and you have to taper back the charge rate.

all this based on flooded lead acid batteries of course, other technologies have other methods that can be used.

bob g



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by dnix71 on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 07:08:42 PM MST

The Swedish government investigated using Peltier solid state stove top modules for off grid electricity production.

http://www.realinnovation.com/archives/1997/01/a/index.htm

With pictures.





Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by spinningmagnets on Sat Oct 11, 2008 at 11:23:10 PM MST

Jason, Dan got an antique steam engine, and converted it to generating electricity with a custom PMA (He says he has a lot of free wood).

Rather than trying to find formulas and do a lot of math to identify the ideal system, Dans set-up provided real-world data on something that really works. His postings started a flurry of discussion that has slowed down after a while.

From what he's said, it takes a constant input of a lot of BTU's to keep a steamer running. I've never run one, but I trust that his postings are accurate. I "think" if you ran a steam engine, you could heat your cabin with the waste heat, but it would be hard to run an engine (even a small one) off of a room heater.

That being said, I'm going to cautiously say, yes. There are many choices, it can quickly get very complex, it can be dangerous, but it can work.

You could fire up your system, and while the battery is charging, the waste heat can be warming a mass of masonry blocks as a heat sponge. After you shut down the fire to sleep, the masonry can safely radiate warmth for a while.

Since you're talking about generating during winter in Alaska, Organic Rankine Cycle (ORC), or "Freon steam" might also be an option for you.

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/10/12/45544/517
Steam postings from the fieldlines archive

http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2008/2/4/0350/64735
Alaska Geothermal ORC



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by RodN on Fri Nov 14, 2008 at 05:42:54 PM MST

Why don't you reverse your point of view and try some collateral thinking? :)

Maybe you can buy for a little price the smallest diesel engine you can find, or even a smaller gasoline motorbike engine. What matter is only the cooling system. look for a liquid cooled one, not forced air one.

Then, you have to do some (simple?) mechanical works, to make the cooling liquid exchange heat with your home or, easier way, to a hot water tank.

The best way i suppose is trying to convert the diesel generator you already have.

Save will come not from oil, but from coal you won't use anymore for the stove.

Already done on industrial scale, the smaller size actually on sell (at least here in Italy) is a 6kW (electrical) unit, with a 3 cilynders engine from toyota.

Rod.



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by woodchips on Sun Jan 18, 2009 at 10:31:47 AM MST

Hello, try a hot air engine. Search for 'hot air engine', 'caloric engine', Stirling engine'. These engines take heat, any heat, and turn it into rotary (normally) motion to which a small alterntor can be attached. Not many watts, but it will run 14/7 so adds up.

Bob



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Blimpman on Wed May 06, 2009 at 11:38:00 PM MST

Electricity will flow in a wire when one end is hot and the other end is cold. Put a piece of metal in your stove with a wire from it, and a piece of metal with a wire from it outside. Measure the electricity between the two wires, volts and amps.



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by leolau on Sat May 09, 2009 at 09:40:53 AM MST

I agree with dnix71.
It would make sense to use the hot exhaust from your coal stove and the cool Alaska winter air to create enough temperature difference to run a solid state thermo electric generator. This is not the most efficient process but probably can keep up with a home made steam engine. Beside that, the energy used for that would be wasted anyhow and the beauty of solid state is definitely that there are no moving parts, no wear out, no maintenence and high reliability and high availability.

I am in the planning stage for a wood gasifier boiler to heat my home and will definitely use the exhaust to generate some electricity.
 
LL:



Re: Charging a battery bank using steam? (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by GeorgiaAdobe on Sat May 30, 2009 at 12:24:18 AM MST

I saw a comment that you used coal heat. How about setting up your gen set to run off coal Gasification ?
try:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/WoodGas/

Best , Joe

Once You Have Gone Dirt, You'll Never Go Back(TM) Georgia Adobe - Commerce, Georgia



Charging a battery bank using steam? | 11 comments (11 topical)
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