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MIG Welder selection


By bobfandango, Section Mechanical
Posted on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 06:06:08 PM MST
Which welder do y'all use?

I'm planning on building a 10' wind turbine according to the Otherpower and Piggott turbine plans.  My question is, what is the minimum MIG welder I could use to do the welds?  I note, for example, that 3" schedule 40 pipe has a wall thickness of almost .5 inches.  I also know that the manufacturers claims regarding maximum welding thickness are generally very liberal.  So, is a 210V, 180 amp MIG welder gonna get the job done?  

Please note, though I am a novice welder, I will take the time to learn to create good welds before I risk life, limb and property flying a turbine of my own creation.

Thanks!

MIG Welder selection | 18 comments (18 topical)

Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Airstream on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 12:25:37 PM MST

Are you sure you are not doubling the wall thickness data, ie: outside diameter less inside diameter equals ~1/2-inch?



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by bobfandango on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 12:44:14 PM MST

I'm basing this on the data here: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ansi-steel-pipes-d_305.html

3 inch schedule 40 has OD of 3.5 inches and ID of 3.07.  That is .43 inches.  Okay, so I guess it's closer to .4 than .5.  Still, the question holds.  Manufacturers typically claim 5/16 for a 180 amp welder.  But look at the buying guide here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/buying.htm

They say 5mm is about max for 180 amps.  5mm ~= .2 inches

What are folks using to do these wind turbine projects?

Thanks!

[ Parent ]



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by bobfandango on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 12:46:24 PM MST

Duh, you are right....   ID is DIAMETER... not radius.  sheesh....  The data I pointed to even expressly states .22 thickness.  So I guess 180 amps is fine.

Still what are folks using?

[ Parent ]



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Airstream on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 12:57:20 PM MST

Lets look back at the pipe section and make note there are two wall sections that together make up the .43" difference so the greatest thickness seen at any point on the circumference of the round pipe will be .215". The 5/16" thickness in decimal is 0.3125 so there is enough amperage available for that example.

When welding man'f rate their equipment it is primarily for a production environment. A hobbyist not working on a time clock can take extra steps of multiple passes after grinding away weld beads that went on cold, preheating the metals with a torch, grinding relief or bevels into the stock for better penetration...

I personally use a stick welder since a cheap MIG unit has not presented itself to me.

[ Parent ]



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Airstream on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 12:58:18 PM MST

Gotta love those AH-HA! moments when they happen. Good question anyhow!

[ Parent ]


Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by tanner0441 on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 12:45:46 PM MST

Hi

If you are welding fairly heavy section what is wrong with a good old stick welder, easier to learn than MIG, doesn't need a shielding gas, and a lot cheaper.

Also on the plus side if you soak any old electrodes in a bucket of water and turn the power right up you can use them for cutting and gouging.

What ever welder you use, if you are welding galvanised metal.  Grind all the galvanising away from the area you are welding and keep plenty of ventilation, the fumes can kill you.

Brian.




Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by imsmooth on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 03:42:37 PM MST

I bought a 230A arc welder on Craig's List.  I think I was using close to 145-160A for welding 1/4" steel together.  Remember, for higher currents you'll need thicker welding rods.  I just started welding a few months ago.
Jonathan


Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by electronbaby on Thu Oct 30, 2008 at 04:39:34 PM MST

Millermatic 180 works fine for me.
Have Fun!! RoyR KB2UHF


Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Blewsage on Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 03:23:51 AM MST

Many's the time I've drooled at look of those nice MIG welds, but alas the price was never where I could justify it. I've been welding with stick and gas since I was a kid, (and that's a year or 50). I bought a wire welder some years ago, and it never found a place in my heart. I do most of my welding with stick, although I'm better with gas. I've got an old Lincoln copper wound which is usually my first weapon of choice; I'll use gas if it's thinner gauge. A mig... maybe someday. However, If I'm serious about making some welds, like in schedule 40 pipe, I'll grab my stick. I'm probably just an old hacker, but I can usually make things stick together. For the price you just can't beat an arc.



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by FrankG on Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 06:27:43 AM MST

I use either stick or wire depending on the job (heavy material - ie; farm equip needs the stick, light sheet material - wire).

But if I had to start out with just one, the stick wins hands down, as it can handle a broader range of jobs, the light work may not be as pretty but the wire feed hits an upper limit for pentration.

The cost per inch of weld may be a consideration though I don't have anything beyond a hunch that flux-cored wire is more expensive than sticks per pound... Gas Shield obviously may change the math on that.

My personal bias also is that learning to draw and sustain an arc with a stick makes you a better welder when you do move to a wire feed, and again the reverse does not hold true.
FrankG www.theworkshop.ca frank@theworkshop.ca
[ Parent ]



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by JW on Fri Oct 31, 2008 at 03:55:40 PM MST

You can get very good results welding with something like this.

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=42422

give the link a minute to load.

I use this type of welder but it has less power as its powered by 120vac. But with 220 or 230(what you would need for a waterheater/range/dryer) you get considerably more power, to make good welds in thick metal with good penetration.

Generally, for MIG, welding only steel, I use a C25 shielding gas mixture, it is 75% argon 25% Co2.

Most likely if you bought somthing like this, you would still be using it 30 years from now. Take your time when it comes to selecting your machine.

JW

[ Parent ]



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by TimV on Sun Nov 02, 2008 at 03:39:05 PM MST

I agree. If you can operate a caulking gun you can run a bead with a mig....well not really but close!! lol   TimV

[ Parent ]


Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by dlenox on Sat Nov 01, 2008 at 10:54:26 AM MST

bobfandango,

I currently own a Millermatic 35, have had it about 12 yrs now and it is still working great!

Just about any 180amp MIG welder should do you many years of service, it's pretty versatile and should easily welt up to about 1/4" thick steel just fine.  You can weld thicker materials, just be sure to bevel your joints (no butt welds) and take a couple of passes.

I used to teach welding and by far MIG is the easiset way to go, if you weld every day or just once per year.  A couple of hints are:

     a) it should crackle like you are frying bacon, if not adjust wire speed and keep a short arc.
      b) use plain old CO2 for shielding gas and can get it almost anywhere for about $20 per refill, a 15-20# tank will last a long time.  CO2 also gives you better penetration with just a little bit increase in spatter
      c) use .030" solid wire, cored wire is far more expensive, and you still have to chip off the residual flux
      d) use a slight weaving motion when you weld, rock steady is not the best way to go, if you have a bit of a 'coffee shake' so much the better!
      e) practice on 1/8"-3/16" scraps of steel, thinner is a bit harder to begin with until you get good control

Dan lenox



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by farmerfrank on Sun Nov 02, 2008 at 10:37:00 AM MST

I think the capacity of a welder is per weld pass. Therefore if the capacity at 180 amps is .2 inches,about 3 passes would make a nice 1/2 inch thick weld. Even small machines can be used on very haevy materila but will require multiple passes with a thorough cleaning of the weld between passes. This is actually preferred over a single pass which would tend to warp and deform the material



batt .welder (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by hiker on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 11:48:47 AM MST

might try this out for practise.....


WILD IN ALASKA
[ Parent ]


Re: batt .welder (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by JW on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 01:26:59 PM MST

What Hiker is illustrating does infact work. Weve seen several members use this technique.

 It does use ark or stick welding rod(this has flux on the outside of the weling rod/stick). Which would classifiy it as a type of ark welding.

 Although I learned to weld with an ark welder for steel. I preffer MIG.

 'When your ark welding, it definitly takes much more skill'.

 Such as striking an ark, and breaking a fused rod(to the work peice) as fast as possible.

If you just use a filter glass[welding glass] alone to protect your eyesight, you should be at an advanced level of experience.

 Its best to use a tilt-up mask and proper filter tint selection for the type of welding application. You can easily get such help at any local welding supply store.

 I Frequently weld aluminum with a 350amp TIG/GTAW. The application uses a stronger/darker filter/tint than is needed for MIG welding steel.

Back when I was much younger, I mig welded for about 15 minutes without the welding mask{welding glass), lets just say it was tough to sleep that night, because my eyes burned like hell, all night long. Never did that again, luckily I was fine the next day.

JW

[ Parent ]



Re: batt .welder (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by JW on Mon Nov 03, 2008 at 04:15:05 PM MST

Oups,

 I mean to say ARC welding versa ARK. Well it took sometime for it to click, that I mis-spelled that, atleast it happened at all...

 Just shows where my mind was at today at work, I remember asking myself, 'if that was right' the reply was suuuure. Sounds the same anyway.

 See, one can only get cought on these things, while- 'Talking on the Internet'.

Best

JW

[ Parent ]



Re: MIG Welder selection (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by bobfandango on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 05:22:53 PM MST

Thanks to all for the comments...  My Hobart Handler 187 just arrived today.  I've got a lead on a 100' length of 2/3 wire to fashion into an extension cord to run from the dryer outlet in the house outside to a safe welding area (only $125!!!).  I will hopefully have some fun with it this weekend.  I've got all the parts for the turbine and cutting and welding up the metal was the only roadblock.  Should be a lot of fun...

Thanks!



MIG Welder selection | 18 comments (18 topical)
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