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12V curent load


By Bosman, Section Wind
Posted on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 06:17:47 AM MST
Should we use welding cables?!

Hi
So I built my first rotor this weekend and it looks promising. Slowly but surely.. More on the progress later.
So now I start thinking about 12v vs 24v.
  1. I do not have many batteries so 12 would suit me better and the dumpload circuit (the one with the myster 2 holes for 24v?)seems actually to be tried and tested for a 12v system, but if I am successful and draw lets say 600W on a good wind, then on 12v we are talking 50A! can almost weld with it!! What kind of cables do you use from the stator down the mast to cary such currents?
  2. Is it possible to wind your coils with 2 strands of wire and then make one stator which you can "switch" from 12 to 24 if you later find you need the one or the other or should one go the more expensive route of a second stator?
Thanks for your inputs.
Bosman
12V curent load | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: 12V curent load (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by Flux on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 01:27:29 AM MST
(User Info)

 "dumpload circuit (the one with the myster 2 holes for 24v?)seems actually to be tried and tested for a 12v system,"

Don't know about that, but you are right about big cables for 12v. The lightest grade welding cable is ideal for the drop down the tower as it is very flexible and tough.

Other less flexible cable is perfectly ok for the rest of the run. For very long runs 12v does present problems but if the machine is not too far away things may not be as bad as you think. These common machines are run in stall mode in high winds with the speed clamped by the constant battery volts and some measure of resistance is needed to get the prop somewhere up on its power curve. With 12v there is hardly ever a problem but at higher voltages keeping the line resistance as low as possible is detrimental to the output and the temptation to include the necessary resistance in the alternator results in lots of stator heat.

There are other limitations with 12v that for big systems are more of a problem that the one off high initial cable cost. Anything over 1kW in terms of input or inverter load is better run at higher voltage.

Yes you can wind your stator for dual voltage if you want. The commonly suggested method is to wind with two wires in hand so that you can connect them in series for 24v or parallel for 12. I wouldn't do this on a high voltage machine as it puts the full machine potential between strands but at low voltages the modern wire will cope adequately.

My preferred method is to wind the stator in 2 halves both star connected in series for 24v and with two half winding stars feeding in parallel through separate rectifiers for 12v. Sadly this requires an even number of coils and doesn't work with the common 12 pole 9 coil stator.

If you can tolerate lots of leads and rectifiers you can use star for 24v and Jerry connection for 12v although if you choose the cut in speed for 12v it may run a bit stalled at 24v.

Flux



Re: 12V curent load (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Bosman on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 02:29:01 PM MST
(User Info)

Thanks Flux
The pole will be fairly close so down the pole and to the bateries would be around 28-30 foot.

I am finacially constained so my battery bank is currently not big and neither is my inverter, but i was hoping to build this up over time and to get an inverter of about 2KW. Since I mainly need the power over weekends, slower charging is not the big problem as there are 5 working days to charge up again. But like all things it would seem there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all :-(   Would seem that i will have to stick to 12v. Even more so as the only magnets I could find here (South Africa) without importing were 50x20x5mm (35s). (Roughly 2x7/8x 3/16 I guess) so my machine will be lighter than the standard 10" Otherpower alternator. I use the 12 magnets each on 12 inch disks. Since I will now have more space between the magnets I am hoping to gain some potential back by making the windings "flatter" and hopefully get the stator thinner and thus a smaller gap between plates. I have already made the first rotor so I am bound to 12 magnets/9 coils.

I did not want to bother you with yet another stupid question so I googled "Jerry connection" but found nothing worthwhile, yet even if I managed that, your comment re stalling in 24v mode further implies that even if I were to get to a 24v stator setup or even make other stator in years to come, I would also need other blades. So I will just have to make peace with the smaller machine and get rid of my wastefull city habits I guess.

All of that be as it may. Thanks to all for this list I am learning a lot and find it very stimulating!

PS: To the old hands this may sound very trivial but I have to admit I am very proud of my first rotor for which I also made the disk myself. This is fun :-)!
Please do not print unless you really need to
[ Parent ]



Re: 12V curent load (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by ghurd on Mon Oct 6th, 2008 at 03:23:25 PM MST
(User Info)

"finacially constained" is the same as broke?
That is Eloquent.  I am just plain broke.

Jerry Rig,
Pretty much 3 separate single phase PMAs, 120 degrees out, in the same housing, feeding the same battery.
http://www.otherpower.com/images/scimages/2050/JerryRig.gif

Be proud.  Have fun.
G-

[ Parent ]



Re: 12V curent load (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Bosman on Tue Oct 7th, 2008 at 05:15:42 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks for the Jerry description.

Broke? Well I can feed my family and have the luxury of access to the bush so I am actually very rich - yet still financially constrained :-) You know what they say about the differnce between men and boys only being  in the price of the toys...
Please do not print unless you really need to
[ Parent ]



12V curent load | 4 comments (4 topical, 0 editorial)
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