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confused, [but learning]


By getterdone, Section Controls
Posted on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 04:23:55 PM MST
putting a system togeather

i've been working on getting my system set up.
i started out with a 12v 2400w inverter. with 6; 12v agm batt's.
i used a 5hp gas engine to power a car alt.,then
i upgrated to a 3600 24v trace inverter and a fork truck batt.,
charging the large batt. with a hugh piggot 10' genny, and that 5hp engine powering a 24v alt., a 6hp lister powering an 24v alt. also.
seeing the lister was a lot better than the 5hp gas engine , i no longer use the gas charger.
i then bought 1000w worth of solar panels. whow they really kick.
ok, here is where i'm learing. i thought you needed a charge controler for the solar panels. [which you do if unattended].
also a dump load for the wind genny.[which you should have if you like your batt's and wind genny].
thinking about this you can't have both hooked at the same time.or you uill never keep the voltage up enough to equalize.
i have two c60 trace controlers. one set up for charge control, and the other for dump load.
ok how should i operate this system? also do i have my controlers set right? and last is my dump load [the bank of resistors] right for the job? [wiring suggestings?]
hereare some pictures to help explain things.












confused, [but learning] | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by SparWeb (sparweb at ANTISPAM_hotmail_com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 12:15:46 PM MST
(User Info)

Great Stuff!
The photos don't make you look confused at all.  On the contrary: you're probably farther up the learning curve than you think.  Humility is good.  Every so often life points out that you forgot something.

Let's look into the C60's first:  I always thought that the C60's didn't have a 48V jumper setting - (see everybody learns stuff).  The Xantrex datasheets I saved a few years ago may be out of date.  I have a C40.  The label on it also says that the C60 is only for 12/24V.

I like the two identical charge controllers in parallel like that - one for wind and one for solar.  The solar one doesn't have to dump to the resistors, it can disconnect the panels any time the batteries are full.  The one for wind is connected to a dump load that looks like it will shed 50 Amps.  This is less than the C60's capability, but I don't know what windmill output you're managing.  If it's 10 feet I guess it would have to be really windy to see 50 Amps, so maybe that's not a concern anyway.

Since you have AGM's, I think that a voltage of 30V is a bit high.  The AGM's must not be so highly charged that they gas out.  There is some variation between battery manufacturers, but not much.  I float mine at 27.5 and bulk at 28V.  Any higher on my set of GNB batteries, and the manual says I would reduce the service life.

I don't see a temperature probe plugged into the CC's.  Judging by the excessively green leaves on your trees in October, I guess you live in one of those places where flakes of white fluff falling from the sky is rare.  You may not need temp correction, but with AGM's, and what I said about not gassing them, I like to have a temperature correction so that they don't sit under-charged on cold days.

The stickiest issue is whether you should set the charge controllers to different bulk or float settings, or should they be as close as possible.  That is one thing I have not yet found in Xantrex installation guides, but I'd like to know more about, too.  If they aren't set right, you could find one dumping power from the wind because it's sunny, not because the batteries are fully charged.  Without knowing more about it, I would have the two set exactly the same, because it's the battery voltage they are regulating, regardless of the source.

I would take that question straight to Xantrex tech support - no need to listen to mixed up opinions on an internet forum for that one.

Lastly, with two sources available, you can have "too much".  Windy and sunny at the same time, could you be putting 50, 60 amps into the batteries?  Can they handle that much charging current?  What is the maximum system charge current in proportion to the C/20 capacity?  Oops scratch that - I just re-read your info and you have a forklift battery.

Looks great.  I'd love to see more!
Steven Fahey



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by getterdone on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 07:45:15 PM MST
(User Info)

steven, i did install a batt temp sensor. the system is powered by three fork truck batt's one about 1000amp hrs,one about 650amp hrs the last one is about 500amp hrs.,which has the temp sensor. all batt's are 24v stand up fork truck type.
i use to have a 1200 amp hr 36v, cut for the right voltage,it was used up so i junked it.
any way the newer batt's work very well. i think they will last 4 or 5 days with out any charging as long as they have a good charge to begin with.
also guys i fabricated a metal stand off for the dump load. its 3/4" from the plywood. if i see a heat problem ill do more to fix it.
If I were smart I'd be dangerous
[ Parent ]


Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Airstream on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 02:08:41 PM MST
(User Info)

I admire your work, I admire the equipment, don't get me wrong, but with a 'forever' installation I'd like to see the main & inverter and sub panels mounted on metal standoffs instead of wood - and a well grounded sheet metal back plate between the electrics and the pink-foam insulation & building exterior.

Also I'd like to see attention toward lightning protection; you are getting into the area of major losses from getting stroked by Natures' fury (ain't talking women)... its always amazing how much grief just the static leaders of strikes that choose to happen elsewhere can inflict.

Thanks for posting & sharing all those goodies !




Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by getterdone on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 07:25:17 PM MST
(User Info)




as you see i have lighting protection.
i did not wire the dump load, they are 0.65 resistors.
can any one steer me in the right direction, as to how they should be wired? series, parallel or what? i'm not into electronics.,but can follow directions.
thanks all for advice.
If I were smart I'd be dangerous
[ Parent ]


Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by getterdone on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 08:01:27 PM MST
(User Info)

looking back on my photo's the resistor's are 0.56 ohm.
If I were smart I'd be dangerous
[ Parent ]


Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Airstream on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 09:06:34 PM MST
(User Info)

The photo lends itself to gauging all the resistor values...

http://www.milwaukeeresistor.com/pdf/ribwound.pdf

If the C-60 is 10" x 5", are those 400W (1-5⁄8" OD x 8-1⁄2 L) ribwound resistors?

[ Parent ]



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by getterdone on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 04:47:49 PM MST
(User Info)

they don't say how many watt's they are; just 0.56 ohms.
my system is 24v, soooo  what would they be in watts?
i don't know ohms law.
i had electronics in college,but that was a long time ago.
the size you described is about right, so is 400watts right?
If I were smart I'd be dangerous
[ Parent ]


Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by ghurd on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 02:51:59 PM MST
(User Info)

Looks like you learn fast.

BTW, OH?
G-



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by windstuffnow (elenz(at)windstuffnow(dot)com) on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 02:56:56 PM MST
(User Info) http://www.windstuffnow.com/main

Very nicely done !   Looks pretty close to my system.   I use 2 C60's for my wind and solar, one as a controller (solar) the other as a dump (wind).  

I set my wind diversion voltage slightly higher than the solar so it doesn't start dumping solar before the batteries are charged.  

The only thing you have to remember is when you manually set the solar controller to equalize you also need to set the wind controller to equalize.   One will finish before the other so you will also need to manually stop the equalize mode on the wind side.  

Using the inverter to charge your batteries when there is no wind or sun you'll need to set the wind controller to equalize mode.   Mine seems to start dumping before the internal charger is done which is a big waste of grid or fuel.   Once the charging is completed you can manually take it off equalize and it will operate normally.  

If you call Tech support about the two working together, share your conversation with us.   I'd like to hear what they said.   It has a few quirks but once you get used them it all seems to work together fairly well...

.
Have Fun! Windstuff Ed



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by SparWeb (sparweb at ANTISPAM_hotmail_com) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 01:03:36 PM MST
(User Info)

"I set my wind diversion voltage slightly higher than the solar so it doesn't start dumping solar before the batteries are charged."

Thanks for pointing that out, Ed.  You adjust both dials (both Bulk and Float) on the wind CC just a bit higher, right?
Steven Fahey
[ Parent ]



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by dnix71 (yahoo.com 'dnix71') on Thu Oct 9th, 2008 at 05:49:20 PM MST
(User Info)

Beautiful work. But like Airstream said, move that dump load box off the plywood.

Metal standoffs (called 'strut' most places) with 3/4" fire rated drywall behind the box and above the box.



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by tecker on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 05:04:57 AM MST
(User Info)

That's nice confusion .I too  think you should rethink you dumpload . A 5 to 7 gal waterheater is a good preheater for a 30 gal and has good UL connections .



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by getterdone on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 04:34:22 PM MST
(User Info)

i have a 10gal 115v water heater but it's 120' from my power shed.
if i could wire it to come on when the batt's are full [that would be great].
If I were smart I'd be dangerous
[ Parent ]


Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by luv2weld (luv2weld at hughes dot net) on Fri Oct 10th, 2008 at 08:03:32 AM MST
(User Info)

Getterdone,
you are learning fast!!!!
Nice work. And good pictures.

I noticed that nobody answered your question on wiring
up your dump load.

So let's back up and clarify a few things first. Don't want
to be making assumptions.

Your system is now 24 volt??

Your wind generator is 10 foot diameter swept area??

The number of coils (and number of wraps)???

You said it was a Hugh Piggott, so there are 12 magnets
that measure 2" x 1" x .5"??

If there is any other information that you can think
of, include it.

Ralph
"The best way to kill time is to work it to death!!"



Re: confused, [but learning] (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by getterdone on Sun Oct 12th, 2008 at 10:58:33 AM MST
(User Info)

my system is 24v.
10' swep area as in the plans for Hugh Piggot's
it furls at 30 amps, but i've seen up to 35amps.
if any one could supply a simple diagram on the correct wiring, that would be nice.
do i have too much ristance for the mill or am i fine with what i got?
the controller for the solar , disconnects it so; we're just conserned about the dump load,
and the ammount of current added bye the mill when the batt's are full and the wind keeps blowing.
in reading other post's i know you need a dump load that can handle a little more current than the mill can produce.
am i right?
remember the risistors are 0.56 each and i have 4 of them.
If I were smart I'd be dangerous
[ Parent ]


confused, [but learning] | 15 comments (15 topical, 0 editorial)
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