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blades


By windspeed, Section Wind
Posted on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 11:17:21 PM MST
variations in design

Can a blade be carved so it will work well in windspeeds up to 25 mph and lose efficiency above this, to prevent overspeeding

Windspeed

blades | 5 comments (5 topical)

Re: blades that self limit output (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by DanOpto on Wed Nov 12, 2008 at 06:02:03 PM MST

Look at the S22 and S823 blades
http://wind.nrel.gov/designcodes/papers/NREL%20Airfoil%20Families%20for%20HAWTs.pdf
They loose power at overspeed



Re: blades (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by Flux on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 12:39:07 AM MST

Basically no.

If you can increase the alternator load rapidly enough ( constant speed operation ) and you can guarantee to maintain the load then you can use stall control. There are blade profiles that work better in this mode.

No way will it prevent overspeeding if you loose the load.

Flux



Re: blades (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by scorman on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 06:11:13 AM MST

Flux,
I have posted documentation from Martin Hepperle before:

http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/windmill.htm

"For the special case of a fixed pitch windmill, the characteristics of the airfoils are controlling the power versus wind speed performance curve. To avoid over speed conditions, the maximum power of the windmill has to be strictly limited, which can be achieved by a specially designed family of airfoils. These airfoils feature a distinct, but not necessarily hard primary stall, which leads to a limitation of the maximum power of the windmill. To avoid noise and structural problems, the airfoils have been designed to have a soft post stall plateau, followed by a soft secondary stall."

Your comments appreciated w/r to the concept of increasing stall at high WS ...the trick is to design for "stall limiting"  not for maximum power at high WS ..these parameters contradict each other, but Bergey and Jacobs shoot for the high power delivery... be nice if Mike Bergey could contribute to this thread.

Allison claimed his "helix" was stall limited at 60+mph WS and I am working on a different multi-rotor design with same design goals ...should have data within 2 months

Stew Corman from sunny Endicott

[ Parent ]



Re: blades (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by Flux on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 08:17:13 AM MST

I am not sure what your question is here.

For small wind power there is not much incentive to work at constant speed. For the earlier asynchronous generators of grid tie machines they were confined to constant speed or two speeds ( both constant).

The need was to extract good power over the working wind speed and to reduce blade power drastically above full rating. Blade design has a large influence on the performance in the working range and during stall limiting above rating.

The normal small machine should be designed for the rotational speed to track wind speed and conditions are very different. If you get things right a fixed pitch blade will run at fixed tsr if the alternator loading follows the cube of wind speed.

The aim is to work the blades at best lift/drag ratio over the useful range. What you do beyond the full power point is a different issue. With suitable blades you may be able to induce stall with a monster alternator but it is unlikely so you need other power limiting.

Designing small alternators to be efficient and cost effective is a serious problem if you limit yourself to constant speed operation. The cost of an alternator drops drastically with speed for the same efficiency. That and the poor blade operation makes anything other than tracking prop speed with wind speed a poor starting point.

Unfortunately the conventional direct loading scheme approximates to constant speed with a very efficient alternator and a compromise between the two with a less efficient electrical system.

What works best for the blade profile must depend on the loading method as much as any other factor.

Even the stall limited constant speed machines can't handle no load and back up schemes such as tip flaps are always used to catch things if load is lost.

Bergey seem able to get their machines to survive off load but with a lot of noise and speed. Changing the blade profile may result in loss of this facility and would also almost certainly need a furling redesign so the choice of blade profile may have been based on a combination of factors.

Flux

[ Parent ]



Re: blades (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by wdyasq on Thu Nov 13, 2008 at 05:30:04 PM MST

" be nice if Mike Bergey could contribute to this thread."

I think you want:

Dr. Michael Selig here:

http://www.ae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/

For a few airfoils try here:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~akmitra/aero361/design_web/airfoil_usage.htm

The UIUC site may be the best reference available to the public.

Ron
Adventure is just bad planning." -- Roald Amundsen
[ Parent ]



blades | 5 comments (5 topical)
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