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Old compressor as steam motor


By Basil, Section Steam
Posted on Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 at 10:03:51 AM MST
steam motor

I made one out of a car compressor and a 4 way air valve that runs at
500 rmp on 100 psi air. It was too simple. So I am going bigger and
keep it simple and maybe I can get some useable power out of it. (Free) I got
my hands on a large compressor ( No tag on it but about 3 ft tall). I want
this to run off steam but I can not find a modern or old slide / control valve.
Once I find this I know I can make a good running steam motor.
Any links would help. I've looked until I'm fed up but I'm still looking.
Yep switching from wind to steam.
Old compressor as steam motor | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 editorial)

Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#1)
by spinningmagnets (velmis1450bc(at)aol(dot)com) on Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 at 10:57:27 AM MST
(User Info)

I've wondered about adapting an old piston air compressor. There will probably be problems that crop up along the way, but I'm sure each problem will have a solution. Please keep posting about this and when you get it to work, some pictures would be great!



Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#3)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 at 12:30:54 PM MST
(User Info)

Try this it works and runs at 500rpms at 100 psi air.




Yes that is a screen door adjuster. It helps set the timing. 4 way air valve with manual handle. Thats paper for a seal for now.

Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#2)
by DanB (danb@*no spam*otherpower.com) on Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 at 11:09:54 AM MST
(User Info) http://www.otherpower.com/

'Once I find this I know I can make a good running steam motor.'

Sounds like a fun project.  Making a reasonable valve shouldn't be tricky - but...  steam is a lot like wind, there is a lot to it, a lot of research has been done and to be even reasonably efficient I think a lot of research is involved.  Last time I ran mine I carefully weighed the coal and monitored KWH output and came up finding that I was running between 2-4% (depending on the quality of the coal which I am not sure) efficient.  (probably I was running about 3%)  Of course, when I fired it all up all the equipment was at -4 deg F!  I expect better efficiency in the summer.

'Any links would help. I've looked until I'm fed up but I'm still looking.
Yep switching from wind to steam.'

Steam is great fun and workable, but to get a steam system thats not very labor intensive will involve a lot of work/money.  Wind is free - once you get it setup there's very little cost/labor involved to keep it running.  If I was to say such a rediculous thing (sorry) that 'Im switching from wind to steam' and actually kept my house/shop powered up I would have a full time job cutting wood and playing 'engineer'.  You don't walk away from a steam system, it requires constant attention.  Lots better than peddling for power but compared to a diesel engine running on vegi oil (if you're worried about renewable energy) or an internal combustion engine running off a gasifiers - steam is a hell of a lot of work, takes a lot of fuel and a lot of water.  

I love steam but untill diesel is over $10/gallon (or more perhaps) it's more of a toy than a practical thing.  The wind offers incredibly practical/inexpensive electricity.



Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#6)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 03:00:40 AM MST
(User Info)

combustion engine running off a gasifiers
I have read up on this. (Hours) I will try it some day. It should run a ele start 12 hp lawn motor. That would pull a genarator. I have one but will have to rebuiled it thanks to my son inlaw. I have not seen anything down to that scale. If thats been done (Sure it has some where)I would love to see it.
Opps off the subject. Back to steam. I still have not found slide / control valve.
Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#7)
by Opera House on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 05:48:20 AM MST
(User Info)

In 1977 I was working on coal gasification at a major R&D center.  Mostly what is made is carbon monoxide from incomplete burning.  Wood gasifiers took off during WWII. Quite easy to run a small engine on this this since mixture ratio is not critical.  Don't need much more than a garbage can and a bucket.  Lot of funky looking vehicles on the web if you google.

[ Parent ]


Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#23)
by colej (colej@castle-ranch.com) on Wed Sep 3rd, 2008 at 06:14:28 PM MST
(User Info)

I bought a thin paperback some time ago from Lindsay publishing that was all about "producer gas" from wood chips. He made the producer gas to run a small engine that drove a generator.

This website has some really cool old books, lots on steam and engines. take a peak at the website.

http://www.lindsaybks.com/


[ Parent ]



Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#14)
by BigBreaker on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 08:02:48 AM MST
(User Info)

That efficiency quote seems really low.  Have you thought about swapping the piston prime mover for a tesla turbine or other alternative?  The tesla turbines come across as a "Keeley net" type of thing, but they are just a simple to machine, drag type turbine.  The RPMs are perhaps too high for direct 60hz AC, but would be fine for battery charging.

[ Parent ]


Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#16)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 10:39:03 AM MST
(User Info)

BigBreaker, I have heard it stated how efficient that the Tesla Turbine is. Have you tested one yourself? I would be interested if it was true.
Joseph.

[ Parent ]


Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#20)
by BigBreaker on Tue Feb 5th, 2008 at 12:17:01 PM MST
(User Info)

http://phoenixnavigation.com/ptbc/turbogen.htm

This guy will make you a 250 or 750 watt steam tesla turbine (no boiler) for a few thousand.  His quoted efficiency is 33% not including boiler inefficiencies.  That sounds a bit too good to be true, but hey... it's a source.

[ Parent ]



Re: switching from wind to steam (3.00 / 0) (#22)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 10:07:57 PM MST
(User Info)

BigBreaker, you are correct about the price!! For that kind of money I guess they can say just about anything. I am very suspect about the claims.
My Point: I want to know how much wood, coal, gas the sucker uses to get one watt. Maybe even the actual number of BTUs that it needs to get one watt. Thanks for your source.
Joseph.

[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#4)
by brianschanafelt (brianschanafelt@yahoo.com) on Sat Feb 2nd, 2008 at 04:26:41 PM MST
(User Info)

I have made a small steam engine by taking a 3hp gas engine Briggs and Stratton. and taking out the cam and welding lobes directly across from one another. And fitting a valve on the intake side for steam or compressed air. I have tried both,the first time i used compressed air, then built a little boiler out of two fire extinguisher's welded them together. And then i put a little watter in them and put it in the BBQ until it had about a hundred and fifty pounds. I didn't want to take a chance of it blowing up so i only went to half recommended pressure. opened the valve and she started turning. I could tell that it had a lot of leakage so i played with the timing a little until it was really going good. those engines are a pain to change the timing because you have to pull it apart every time and move it a tooth either way. I think with a little more fabrication it probably would be pretty efficient.
"something free is money well spent"


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#5)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 02:39:48 AM MST
(User Info)

Was going to do one but it look like a lot of work. I have a 6 hp
side shaft. It's a good motor but no carb. My father took it years ago.
I went with the car compressor becaue it was simple, quick and I had
the parts laying around. Still have not made a boiler. That noworking
wind turbine is useing up all my free time.
Whats the rpm at what psi? Does it perform good under a load?
Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#8)
by Opera House on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 05:52:10 AM MST
(User Info)

"put it in the BBQ until it had about a hundred and fifty pounds"

With 150 pound steam at 350 degrees I don't think we will be seeing you around long.

[ Parent ]



Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#9)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 06:44:08 AM MST
(User Info)

Fast but not smart. I want a boiler so bad it killing me. I'm Still learning before I build one so it wont do just that.
Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#11)
by WXYZCIENCE on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 11:52:09 PM MST
(User Info)

Basil, I have been working on boilers for a few years now. Here is a link to one of the tube boilers that I made. http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2007/5/18/234240/453

Tube boilers do not have the volume of steam but they are probably the safest type for what you are up to. At 100 psi the temperature will be 338 degrees F., This is where the real danger is in any steam unit. There is a relationship of efficiency with temperature, and this is where the problem is. To get efficiency approaching diesel you would have to run your temperature upwards of 1000 degrees. If you are going to experiment with steam please be careful. If you have any questions I will try to give you good answers.
Joseph

[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#12)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 07:16:48 AM MST
(User Info)

Thanks WXYZCIENCE. I have seen your work while looking around on the web and it looks good and safe. I can put something like that together and it my work. BUT I have some things that are unclear to me even with all the reading I've done. People like myself  who wants to build a boiler and are smart enough not to just put some thing together but do not have the knowledge to build one safely . Here are some points that are unclear to me.
With common sense I know to use temp and pressure rated pop off valve, gage, check valve and pressure control valve. WOW few hundred bucks there. Ok back to the questions. How is water put in to replaced what is used is such a system? Pump? Details would be welcome/ very welcome. What size tubing type, length for HP engine. Details would be welcome/ very welcome. Regular ever day down the road hardware copper tubing ok? Dose the tubing come in contact with the fire? Is there a place for water other than the tubing? This is just some questions for now. If anyone has a question to add fill free to post it. Others and myself may learn from the answers. I feel when it comes to steam there is no dumb question. Well there may be but if it will help keep you safe ask any way. I'm learning but a lot of these guys have been there and done it and I bet they do not wont anyone hurt.
Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#15)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 10:26:56 AM MST
(User Info)

Basil, most of my turbines run at 40 -50 psi yet my boiler is tested (Cold) to 300 psi.

Don't use tanks for your boiler!

Always use a pressure release valve, they are Law!

Copper tube boilers work well, but they do not take a flash. (No water in boiler).
Replacement of water can be done in several ways. The first and is a pump, this takes power to operate. Second is a injector system, $ and hard to find. The method that I use mostly is domestic water pressure. With a tube boiler it is hard to get the flow of input water just right but it is the cheapest. Use a ball valve into a check valve and then into the tube. This allows you to regulate the flow.

My boiler has 80 feet of 3/4" schedule 80 pipe. This one has produced 150 watts of AC power . Efficiency of around 4%. Sounds low but I cogenerate the steam to heat water.

Like DanB says, steam required a full time operator. I enjoy working with steam but I am still a ways from producing any real power. I think my wind power is way out in front in the power making game.
Joseph.

[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#21)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 at 10:40:30 AM MST
(User Info)

Sorry so late to reply. Good info Thanks. I'm rounding up parts.
Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#13)
by BigBreaker on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 07:55:34 AM MST
(User Info)

Yea - I don't know where to begin with this one...

The fire extinguisher is rated as cold metal.  Heated metal will be weaker and a BBQ could heat unevenly, making one spot much weaker.

You have described a good way to kill yourself.

[ Parent ]



Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#10)
by brianschanafelt (brianschanafelt@yahoo.com) on Sun Feb 3rd, 2008 at 12:36:08 PM MST
(User Info)

You will be fine if you have tanks that are rated at 150 psi. Just dont be stupid enough to be sticking yourself that close to them when it is on. I kept my tanks outside and ran all of my lines through my garage window
"something free is money well spent"


Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#17)
by spinningmagnets (velmis1450bc(at)aol(dot)com) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 12:54:25 PM MST
(User Info)

I am fascinated by home-made steam, but I have not built anything yet...

My current "vapor-ware" make-up water feed pump (MUWFP?) is a pressure washer pump that runs constantly, and water is either added to the boiler-tubes or bypassed by operating a 3-way valve (through a check valve, of course). The crankshaft runs the PMA and also the MUWFP.

The simplest way to start out is a total-loss system, where cold water is added and converted to steam, and then the exhaust is vented to the air. (side note: if the hot exhaust is piped to the top of an elevated aluminum radiator that is above a roof-cistern, most of it will condense into distilled hot water with a gravity feed to the cabin)

If a large insulated tank (salvaged 500 gal propane?) is kept as a reservoir, once it is warmed by the condensing exhaust, you will be feeding the boiler 200F water instead of 50 F water.

The 400 gallons of hot water can also be used as a DHW pre-heater, or for a radiant floor heating system.

The plan will probably change (if I ever actually do something) but I'd like to try 10 ft of 1/2" (dash-eight, meaning 8/16ths) stainless steel hydraulic tubing filled with sand to prevent kinking and wrapped around a pipe to form a coil. The constant duty pressure rating is 3,000 PSI and burst is 4,500 PSI.

I figure the Franklin stove and boiler tube (also the feed control valve) will be inside the shop, and the relief valve and the rest will be outside surrounded by a solid  wall and an open top.

After reading DanB's steam posts, I think the smaller air-compressor would work well-enough with 150 PSI (the lower, the better)



Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#18)
by WXYZCIENCE on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 05:41:58 PM MST
(User Info)

Basil, here is a link to a steam engine site
http://www.watercressline.co.uk/tw/pages/howworks.htm

Lots about Injectors, fuseplugs, regenerators.
Joseph.



Re: Old compressor as steam motor (3.00 / 0) (#19)
by Basil (basil(spamblock)key@bellsouth.net) on Mon Feb 4th, 2008 at 06:46:08 PM MST
(User Info)

Thanks Lots of reading there.
Bad luck or none at all.
[ Parent ]


Old compressor as steam motor | 23 comments (23 topical, 0 editorial)
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